The Stab a Soldier in the Back Act 2007

Gonz said:
Do tell. Be sure to provide dates of perjury convictions, if any.
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You should ask Cerise about the lies....

This war ultimately has been for strategic location in the Middle East. We're after Iran, and we've BEEN after Iran from day one. To do that, we needed to be in Iraq. We needed staging areas and logistical support centers that are OURS and that can't be denied to us when we need them. Turkey, for instance, said no when we wanted to use their ports and airspace at the start of the war.

Could we have gone to Iraq saying we needed to drain the swamp of terrorists and establish a foothold in the ME to be ready for future conflicts? Most of the American public doesn't have the stomach for such harsh realities, but can't comprehend that we don't live in a world of nice people, even when reality comes to slap them in the face.
 
Cerise said:
Then it's probably better to let the Iranians strike first. What's the worst that could happen? The oceans will protect us.
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It's probably better not to encourage our leaders to lie to us and work towards nobody striking at all.
 
At this point, it doesn't matter why we were sent into Iraq. The important issue is how we leave Iraq. Are we going to do the right thing, and fix the place up, or just haul ass, and let them collapse into chaos and ruin? We need to stop trying to assess blame and start trying to correct a problem. Cutting and running will only make this worse.
 
Gato_Solo said:
At this point, it doesn't matter why we were sent into Iraq. The important issue is how we leave Iraq. Are we going to do the right thing, and fix the place up, or just haul ass, and let them collapse into chaos and ruin? We need to stop trying to assess blame and start trying to correct a problem. Cutting and running will only make this worse.
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Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, the administration seems completely clueless as to how to proceed and I think you know as well as I do what is really going to happen. I'm also not really sure it could be made worse.
 
chcr said:
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, the administration seems completely clueless as to how to proceed and I think you know as well as I do what is really going to happen. I'm also not really sure it could be made worse.
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All one need do is look at the non-binding resolution that passed to see where this is headed. Congress is even threatening the budget. The media has played up two issues that aren't important, whipping the anti-war crowd into a frenzy (cost in lives and dollars), and the people are sick of seeing the numbers climb. We need to go back to a draft, and make everybody physically and mentally fit serve at least two years...No exceptions. When we had a draft like that, we had a lot less idiots demanding things that they had no idea about...
 
Gato_Solo said:
All one need do is look at the non-binding resolution that passed to see where this is headed. Congress is even threatening the budget. The media has played up two issues that aren't important, whipping the anti-war crowd into a frenzy (cost in lives and dollars), and the people are sick of seeing the numbers climb. We need to go back to a draft, and make everybody physically and mentally fit serve at least two years...No exceptions. When we had a draft like that, we had a lot less idiots demanding things that they had no idea about...
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See, I think that, just as with Viet Nam, the lie has become unsustainable and even the people who want to accept it are mostly disgusted and tired of it. I also disagree that the cost in lives and dollars is unimportant. It's not the only consideration, but at this point we're spending lives and money to no discernable purpose. People are sick of seeing the numbers climb, and they should be. Are you maintaining that the media shouldn't be allowed to report the numbers to avoid upsetting the common folk?

The draft. Two years of federal service (but not necessarily military service) between high school and college, no exceptions.

I think the idiots demanding things they don't understand has more to do with the availability of information (and misinformation) than with the draft. I also think that if a lot of said idiots got what they think they want they'd be very unhappy about it, don't you?
 
chcr said:
See, I think that, just as with Viet Nam, the lie has become unsustainable and even the people who want to accept it are mostly disgusted and tired of it. I also disagree that the cost in lives and dollars is unimportant. It's not the only consideration, but at this point we're spending lives and money to no discernable purpose. People are sick of seeing the numbers climb, and they should be. Are you maintaining that the media shouldn't be allowed to report the numbers to avoid upsetting the common folk?
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In a roundabout way, maybe I am. If they only see the negative, how can the balance that out with the positive?

chcr said:
The draft. Two years of federal service (but not necessarily military service) between high school and college, no exceptions.

I think the idiots demanding things they don't understand has more to do with the availability of information (and misinformation) than with the draft. I also think that if a lot of said idiots got what they think they want they'd be very unhappy about it, don't you?
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I will disagree with this. The information is out there. Its just not handed to you. What is going on is the idiots are given a ball of yarn to play with, and have no desite to see where the yarn comes from. LikeCol Jessup said, "they can't handle the truth"...
 
chcr said:
at this point we're spending lives and money to no discernable purpose.
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Therein lies a major problem. Most Americans chose not to see past their wallet. If it's not biting them in the ass, it's not going to affect them. This was the 1938 US model. Isolationism, while it looks grand on paper, is not a workable mode, especially in todays mass-media, high speed transportation world.

The problem may not be completely evident. However, history has shown, repeatedly, what happens when it's ignored & allowed to fester.
 
Gato_Solo said:
The media has played up two issues that aren't important, whipping the anti-war crowd into a frenzy (cost in lives and dollars), and the people are sick of seeing the numbers climb.
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Yeah, lives and tax dollars aren't important. Let's waste more making things worse. :rolleyes:
 
Gonz said:
The problem may not be completely evident. However, history has shown, repeatedly, what happens when it's ignored & allowed to fester.
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The problem is completely evident, it is in no way being addressed. As I said, money and lives are currently being spent to no purpose. Leaving Iraq in their current situation is a bad idea. Spending a few hundred more lives, then leaving in Iraq in a similar (or identical) situation would be far worse, and that is clearly where we're headed.
 
FEBRUARY 20, 2007

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:


AMERICANS WANT TO WIN IN IRAQ
NATIONAL SURVEY SAYS PUSH TO RENOUNCE WAR IN WASHINGTON ON DIFFERENT PAGE THAN MAJORITY OF AMERICAN PEOPLE ON IRAQ WAR

"The survey shows Americans want to win in Iraq, and that they understand Iraq is the central point in the war against terrorism and they can support a U.S. strategy aimed at achieving victory," said Neil Newhouse, a partner in POS. "The idea of pulling back from Iraq is not where the majority of Americans are."
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http://www.pos.org/inthenews/20070220.cfm
 
Public Opinion Strategies is a national political and public affairs research firm. Founded in 1991, we have conducted more than three and a half million interviews with voters and consumers in all fifty states and over a dozen foreign countries. Headquartered in Alexandria, Virginia, our nationwide presence is achieved through strategically sited offices in California, and Colorado, with six Partners and five Vice Presidents leading research efforts.
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:rofl:
 
chcr said:
Spending a few hundred more lives, then leaving in Iraq in a similar (or identical) situation would be far worse, and that is clearly where we're headed.
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Chicken & the egg.

We're headed there beacause of unfavorable reporting.
 
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