The tide marches on

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Hail Komrade!

May 15 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. House Democrats are weighing an expansion of the government’s role in health care that would include a mandate that employers provide coverage to all full- time workers or pay a percentage of their payroll to the Treasury.

Take over the banks...then the automakers (save Ford)...now it'll be all employers who are run by Uncle Obama.

Not socialists huh
 
Yeah health care for everyone would be a TERRIBLE thing! Why that would limit insurance companies ability to rape you financially, and then not cover you when they are supposed to! That would be very bad for legalized organized crime...er I mean the insurance industry!

Wikipedia said:
The United States is alone among developed nations with the absence of a universal health care system.

Article

So you think there might be a reason why we are the only one holding on to this outdated idea of health care for profit and profit alone? Oh wait I forgot logic, reason, and sense are things that you believe have no place in politics. I know also that by god if one penny of your taxes benefits anyone else then by god you've been robbed!

You know what else would be a good idea? When someone calls the police of fire department if they would take your credit card info before they come, then if you can't pay then they don't have to waste resources on indigents.

Hey here's another idea! Perhaps when an indigent needs medical care they should be able to let drug companies run experiments on them to pay for the services! That way everybody wins! Oh yes and let's do away with that old pesky Hippocratic Oath. That sucker has no business in the business of medicine!

Health care for all people, not while I still have my gun in my hands!

You know what? You and probably almost everyone here is one nasty bout with cancer away from having to rely on charity for medical help. One horrible accident....Perhaps you come up with some condition that they can legally refuse to pay for. If some sort of national health care is such a bad idea, and if it does happen, I hope you will do the right thing and suffer miserably and die from the condition because it's the "right" thing to do!
 
Yeah health care for everyone would be a TERRIBLE thing!

Show me where the United States has the authority to
a)provide healthcare for anyone;
or
b)force employers to provide services?

Want to see you heathcare dollar stretch? Pay your fucking bill. Don't ask your insurance to pay it. Don't ask me to pay it (taxes). Don't forfeit on it. Pay cash. On the spot.

Insurance is for catastrophic care. Your runny nose should be on you.
 
Show me where the United States has the authority to
a)provide healthcare for anyone;
or
b)force employers to provide services?

Want to see you heathcare dollar stretch? Pay your fucking bill. Don't ask your insurance to pay it. Don't ask me to pay it (taxes). Don't forfeit on it. Pay cash. On the spot.

Insurance is for catastrophic care. Your runny nose should be on you.

All the more reason why it's great that nobody like you is, or ever will be in charge. I know I can live with that!
 
Show me where the United States has the authority to
a)provide healthcare for anyone;
or
b)force employers to provide services?

Want to see you heathcare dollar stretch? Pay your fucking bill. Don't ask your insurance to pay it. Don't ask me to pay it (taxes). Don't forfeit on it. Pay cash. On the spot.

Insurance is for catastrophic care. Your runny nose should be on you.
I went to the ER about a month ago. The physician's bill was nearly $400. I only saw her for about 15 minutes during the hours I was there.

This is why people have insurance, because medical expenses are so high that you'd have to take out a loan to pay it (at whatever interest rate the bank/credit card companies give you).

When I didn't have insurance I paid cash at the doctor. One doctor's visit at the family practitioner was minimum $110. Any services or tests added to that bill. I couldn't afford to see a gynecologist, which was dangerous. My mother died of ovarian cancer and I am supposed to get a screening every 6 months.

The problem with healthcare is the healthcare business itself. No one went into the medical profession because they care about their fellow human being, they get in the profession to get rich of their patients.
 
Hail Komrade!



Take over the banks...then the automakers (save Ford)...now it'll be all employers who are run by Uncle Obama.

Not socialists huh
Just need to comment about the "take over" statement. These companies were not taken over, they handed themselves over by asking for and taking my tax dollars. When you're on welfare there are certain rules you have to follow because someone else is paying your bills. Same with these companies. So I say fuck 'em.

There are plenty of companies who have not taken bailout money and hooray for them. But if these companies on welfare think my money comes without strings they've got another thing comin'.
 
I went to the ER about a month ago. The physician's bill was nearly $400. I only saw her for about 15 minutes during the hours I was there.

Without invading your privacy, why the ER?


These companies were not taken over, they handed themselves over by asking for and taking my tax dollars.

There are banks that were not in danger that were forced/coereced by the administration to take some money - to keep the public from knowing which particualr banks were near insolvent.

Since then, many of these banks have attempted full repayment - and the administration refused their offer.

On the other hand, the federal government is not authorized, nor does it have authority, to pass tax dollars on to any private entity as a means to support them.

Buy Ford - they are an American company with leadership.

When you're on welfare there are certain rules you have to follow because someone else is paying your bills.

What rules? I'm surrounded by welfare scum & allI see is self-serving system manipulation. Rules? There are no rules.
 
Never EVER go to the ER!
If you need Emergency Medical Care
then you'd damn well better be havin' a bona fide
medical emergency! You’d better be spurtin’ blood
all over the place or have broken bones protruding
thru your skin!

The uninsured and illegals have ruined the ER's
by turning them into their own free clinics.
If you are going to access the medical system
then do it the way you are supposed too,
thru your doctor/medical provider.

If the issue can wait til business hours
then you'd damn well better do it that way.

Yeah Val why’d ya have to see a Doc for 15 minutes?
 
I am again glad not to be an american.

The idea of not having universal health care is as foreign to me as not having indoor plumbing.
 
Facts on the Cost of Health Insurance and Health Care

Introduction
By several measures, health care spending continues to rise at a rapid rate and forcing businesses and families to cut back on operations and household expenses respectively.
In 2008, total national health expenditures were expected to rise 6.9 percent -- two times the rate of inflation.1 Total spending was $2.4 TRILLION in 2007, or $7900 per person1. Total health care spending represented 17 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP).
U.S. health care spending is expected to increase at similar levels for the next decade reaching $4.3 TRILLION in 2017, or 20 percent of GDP.1
In 2008, employer health insurance premiums increased by 5.0 percent – two times the rate of inflation. The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,700. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,700.2
Experts agree that our health care system is riddled with inefficiencies, excessive administrative expenses, inflated prices, poor management, and inappropriate care, waste and fraud. These problems significantly increase the cost of medical care and health insurance for employers and workers and affect the security of families.
National Health Care Spending
  • In 2008, health care spending in the United States reached $2.4 trillion, and was projected to reach $3.1 trillion in 2012.1 Health care spending is projected to reach $4.3 trillion by 2016.1
  • Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense.3
  • In 2008, the United States will spend 17 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent by 2017.1
  • Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
  • Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4

Employer and Employee Health Insurance Costs
  • Premiums for employer-based health insurance rose by 5.0 percent in 2008. In 2007, small employers saw their premiums, on average, increase 5.5 percent. Firms with less than 24 workers, experienced an increase of 6.8 percent.2
  • The annual premium that a health insurer charges an employer for a health plan covering a family of four averaged $12,700 in 2008. Workers contributed nearly $3,400, or 12 percent more than they did in 2007.2 The annual premiums for family coverage significantly eclipsed the gross earnings for a full-time, minimum-wage worker ($10,712).
  • Workers are now paying $1,600 more in premiums annually for family coverage than they did in 1999.2
  • Since 1999, employment-based health insurance premiums have increased 120 percent, compared to cumulative inflation of 44 percent and cumulative wage growth of 29 percent during the same period.2
  • Health insurance expenses are the fastest growing cost component for employers. Unless something changes dramatically, health insurance costs will overtake profits by the end of 2008.5
  • According to the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust, premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance in the United States have been rising four times faster on average than workers’ earnings since 1999.2
  • The average employee contribution to company-provided health insurance has increased more than 120 percent since 2000. Average out-of-pocket costs for deductibles, co-payments for medications, and co-insurance for physician and hospital visits rose 115 percent during the same period.6
  • The percentage of Americans under age 65 whose family-level, out-of-pocket spending for health care, including health insurance, that exceeds $2,000 a year, rose from 37.3 percent in 1996 to 43.1 percent in 2003 – a 16 percent increase.7

The Impact of Rising Health Care Costs
  • National surveys show that the primary reason people are uninsured is the high cost of health insurance coverage.2
  • Economists have found that rising health care costs correlate to drops in health insurance coverage.8
  • A recent study by Harvard University researchers found that the average out-of-pocket medical debt for those who filed for bankruptcy was $12,000. The study noted that 68 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy had health insurance. In addition, the study found that 50 percent of all bankruptcy filings were partly the result of medical expenses.9 Every 30 seconds in the United States someone files for bankruptcy in the aftermath of a serious health problem.
  • A new survey shows that more than 25 percent said that housing problems resulted from medical debt, including the inability to make rent or mortgage payments and the development of bad credit ratings.10
  • About 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs. 11
  • A survey of Iowa consumers found that in order to cope with rising health insurance costs, 86 percent said they had cut back on how much they could save, and 44 percent said that they have cut back on food and heating expenses.12
  • Retiring elderly couples will need $250,000 in savings just to pay for the most basic medical coverage.13 Many experts believe that this figure is conservative and that $300,000 may be a more realistic number.
  • According to a recent report, the United States has $480 billion in excess spending each year in comparison to Western European nations that have universal health insurance coverage. The costs are mainly associated with excess administrative costs and poorer quality of care.14
  • The United States spends six times more per capita on the administration of the health care system than its peer Western European nations.14

Time for Action on Reining in Health Care Costs

Policymakers and government officials agree that health care costs must be controlled. But they disagree on the best ways to address rapidly escalating health spending and health insurance premiums. Some favor price controls and imposing strict budgets on health care spending. Others believe free market competition is the best way to solve the problems. Public health advocates believe that if all Americans adopted healthy lifestyles, health care costs would decrease as people required less medical care.
There appears to be no agreement on a single solution to health care’s high price tag. Many approaches may be used to control costs. What we do know is if the rate of escalation in health care spending and health insurance premiums continues at current trends, the cost of inaction will severely affect employer’s bottom lines and consumer’s pocketbooks.
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

In other words...Insurance companies and Hospitals are fucking your economy, your people and your over-all health. It all comes down to greed.
 
much of it is not greed.
the system has been taxed with too fast of an influx.

That said. Something does seem to need to be done.
What? I don't know yet, as that's not my field.

That's why I wanted some input.
The ins. companies are just a joke now. That is greed.
 
Without invading your privacy, why the ER?
Nasty virus... caused all fluids to errrr... leave my body. Couldn't stop the exodus and my family physician advised me to go immediately to the ER. I was very weak by then and had to get the hubby to come home from work to take me.

There are banks that were not in danger that were forced/coereced by the administration to take some money - to keep the public from knowing which particualr banks were near insolvent.

Since then, many of these banks have attempted full repayment - and the administration refused their offer.

On the other hand, the federal government is not authorized, nor does it have authority, to pass tax dollars on to any private entity as a means to support them.
Chrysler filed for bankruptcy, it was the best thing for them.

Buy Ford - they are an American company with leadership.
Done... '07 Ford Escape Hybrid... love it.

What rules? I'm surrounded by welfare scum & allI see is self-serving system manipulation. Rules? There are no rules.
Food Stamps can not be used for buying liquor, or toilet paper. Those rules.

But I understand your grief... that's why I moved away from the city... I live in the country (I have over 40 acres... but no mule, just a donkey).
 
my family physician advised me to go immediately to the ER.

Thanks to lawyers. Why not go to his office? Lawyers trained him to C.Y.A. Why didn't he come to you? CYA.

The ER is for traumatic emergencies, not illnesses. Fucking lawyers.
 
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