What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along?

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Slowly but surely all but the most ardent Bush haters will end where many of us have been from the start.

Chicago Sun TImes said:
February 1, 2005
BY MARK BROWN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST


Maybe you're like me and have opposed the Iraq war since before the shooting started -- not to the point of joining any peace protests, but at least letting people know where you stood.


You didn't change your mind when our troops swept quickly into Baghdad or when you saw the rabble that celebrated the toppling of the Saddam Hussein statue, figuring that little had been accomplished and that the tough job still lay ahead.

Despite your misgivings, you didn't demand the troops be brought home immediately afterward, believing the United States must at least try to finish what it started to avoid even greater bloodshed. And while you cheered Saddam's capture, you couldn't help but thinking I-told-you-so in the months that followed as the violence continued to spread and the death toll mounted.

By now, you might have even voted against George Bush -- a second time -- to register your disapproval.

But after watching Sunday's election in Iraq and seeing the first clear sign that freedom really may mean something to the Iraqi people, you have to be asking yourself: What if it turns out Bush was right, and we were wrong?

It's hard to swallow, isn't it?

Americans cross own barrier

If you fit the previously stated profile, I know you're fighting the idea, because I am, too. And if you were with the president from the start, I've already got your blood boiling.

For those who've been in the same boat with me, we don't need to concede the point just yet. There's a long way to go. But I think we have to face the possibility.

I won't say that it had never occurred to me previously, but it's never gone through my mind as strongly as when I watched the television coverage from Iraq that showed long lines of people risking their lives by turning out to vote, honest looks of joy on so many of their faces.

Some CNN guest expert was opining Monday that the Iraqi people crossed a psychological barrier by voting and getting a taste of free choice (setting aside the argument that they only did so under orders from their religious leaders).

I think it's possible that some of the American people will have crossed a psychological barrier as well.

Deciding democracy's worth


On the other side of that barrier is a concept some of us have had a hard time swallowing:

Maybe the United States really can establish a peaceable democratic government in Iraq, and if so, that would be worth something.

Would it be worth all the money we've spent? Certainly.

Would it be worth all the lives that have been lost? That's the more difficult question, and while I reserve judgment on that score until such a day arrives, it seems probable that history would answer yes to that as well.

I don't want to get carried away in the moment.

Going to war still sent so many terrible messages to the world.

Most of the obstacles to success in Iraq are all still there, the ones that have always led me to believe that we would eventually be forced to leave the country with our tail tucked between our legs. (I've maintained from the start that if you were impressed by the demonstrations in the streets of Baghdad when we arrived, wait until you see how they celebrate our departure, no matter the circumstances.)

In and of itself, the voting did nothing to end the violence. The forces trying to regain the power they have lost -- and the outside elements supporting them -- will be no less determined to disrupt our efforts and to drive us out.

Somebody still has to find a way to bring the Sunnis into the political process before the next round of elections at year's end. The Iraqi government still must develop the capacity to protect its people.

And there seems every possibility that this could yet end in civil war the day we leave or with Iraq becoming an Islamic state every bit as hostile to our national interests as was Saddam.

Penance could be required


But on Sunday, we caught a glimpse of the flip side. We could finally see signs that a majority of the Iraqi people perceive something to be gained from this brave new world we are forcing on them.

Instead of making the elections a further expression of "Yankee Go Home," their participation gave us hope that all those soldiers haven't died in vain.

Obviously, I'm still curious to see if Bush is willing to allow the Iraqis to install a government that is free to kick us out or to oppose our other foreign policy efforts in the region.

So is the rest of the world.

For now, though, I think we have to cut the president some slack about a timetable for his exit strategy.

If it turns out Bush was right all along, this is going to require some serious penance.

Maybe I'd have to vote Republican in 2008.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
Maybe we've done a good thing, I think it's too early to tell. The problem was and is justification. At best the original justification was wrong, at worst it was an out and out lie to the American people. The ends do not justify the means, IMO.
 

A.B.Normal

New Member
Afghanistan is still rife with fighting even after their elections several months ago ,with only Kabul having any sense of security .
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
chcr said:
At best the original justification was wrong, at worst it was an out and out lie to the American people. The ends do not justify the means, IMO.
No.
At best the military will find and dig up a big ass cache of bio weapons. :D
 

A.B.Normal

New Member
catocom said:
No.
At best the military will find and dig up a big ass cache of bio weapons. :D

Not gonna happen
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146075,00.html
WASHINGTON — The CIA (search) is preparing retrospective reports to revise officially the intelligence on Iraq's weapons capabilities before the 2003 invasion, according to an intelligence official familiar with the process.

Among them is a document titled "Iraq: No Large-Scale Chemical Warfare Efforts Since Early 1990s," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
I got faith though.
I believe in God too. :D

I figure someday, somebody, will be shuffling though the desert and they'll
stub their toe on the tip of a rocket or something. :lloyd:
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
What if Bush is/was wrong and fighting terrorism
bringing down tyrannical regimes and spreading freedom
is the absolute wrong thing for the worlds only Superpower to do?
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
eh, the world is going to hell in a hand-basket anyway.
I think GW is just prolonging it a little.
 

Thulsa Doom

New Member
what if bush was right about what? wmd? nukes? mission accomplished?

none of those things apply now. So its an empty argument.

now what if bush was WRONG has some pretty damn scary scenarios that still have potential...
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
catocom said:
I got faith though.
I believe in God too. :D

I figure someday, somebody, will be shuffling though the desert and they'll
stub their toe on the tip of a rocket or something. :lloyd:
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
No wait that would leave the job only half Done wouldn't it?

Impeach Bush give Kerry the job and let him
surrender to the French or the French Canadians.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Thulsa Doom said:
what if bush was right about what? wmd? nukes? mission accomplished?

none of those things apply now. So its an empty argument.

now what if bush was WRONG has some pretty damn scary scenarios that still have potential...

Man, it must just suck to never have a good thing to say. To live in such a doom & gloom world...oh, wait, you ARE in DC...the liberal we're all gonna die capital. You may have an excuse.
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
What will all the members of our armed services
do after the surrender? Will we transfer the entire
stockpile of all our weapons to the French?
 

tank girl

New Member
Gonz said:
Man, it must just suck to never have a good thing to say. To live in such a doom & gloom world...oh, wait, you ARE in DC...the liberal we're all gonna die capital. You may have an excuse.

Gonz, what do you get out of throwing the term "liberal" around like its a loose swear word?
 

freako104

Well-Known Member
Gonz said:
Man, it must just suck to never have a good thing to say. To live in such a doom & gloom world...oh, wait, you ARE in DC...the liberal we're all gonna die capital. You may have an excuse.



depends on the area its in. Montgomery County was very liberal. I dont know about the Viriginia side of the DC area tho.
 

rrfield

New Member
tank girl said:
Gonz, what do you get out of throwing the term "liberal" around like its a loose swear word?

This goes back to part of the Bush Doctrine - you are either with us or against us. Period. Everything can be broken down into two...exactly 2...options. It's a very simplistic idea that requires little critical thought but tends to win elections.

This can be traced back to the 1930's philosopher Popeye who proudly proclaimed "I yam what I yam" and never looked back.
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
rrfield said:
This goes back to part of the Bush Doctrine - you are either with us or against us. Period.

That sums it up nicely. Stinks to be on the losing side don't it?
 
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