Who killed the Electric Car?

spike

New Member
This week, NOW talks to director Chris Paine about his upcoming documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?" The film looks at the hopeful birth and untimely death of the electric car, an environmentally-friendly, cost-saving salvation to some, but a profit barrier to others.

In a film that has all the elements of a murder mystery, Paine points the finger at car companies, the oil industry, bad ad campaigns, consumer wariness, and a lack of commitment from the U.S. government.

"[The film] is about why the only kind of cars that we can drive run on oil. And for a while there was a terrific alternative, a pure electric car," Paine said.


In 1996, General Motors (G.M.) launched the first modern-day commercially available electric car, the EV1. The car required no fuel and could be plugged in for recharging at home and at a number of so-called battery parks.

Many of the people who leased the car, including a number of celebrities, said the car drove like a dream.

"...the EV1 was a high performer. It could do a U-turn on a dime; it was incredibly quiet and smooth. And it was fast. I could beat any Porsche off the line at a stoplight. I loved it," Actress, Alexandra Paul told NOW.

After California regulators saw G.M.s electric car in the late 1980s, they launched a zero-emissions vehicle program in 1990 to clean up the state's smoggy skies.

Under the program, two percent of all new cars sold had to be electric by 1998 and 10 percent by 2003.


Actress Alexandra Paul in her EV1, G.M.'s electric car.
But it was not to be. A little over 1,000 EV1s were produced by G.M. before the company pulled the plug on the project in 2002 due to insufficient demand. Other major car makers also ceased production of their electric vehicles.

In the wake of a legal challenge from G.M. and DaimlerChrysler, California amended its regulations and abandoned its goals. Shortly thereafter, automakers began reclaiming and dismantling their electrics as they came off lease.

Some suggest that G.M. -- which says it invested some $1 billion in the EV1 -- never really wanted the cars to take off. They say G.M. intentionally sabotaged their own marketing efforts because they feared the car would cannibalize its existing business. G.M. disputes these claims.

Take a trip with us this week as we find out more about why the electric car slipped off the road. Next time on NOW.

"Who Killed the Electric Car" appears in theaters in New York and Los Angeles on June 28th and in other theaters throughout the country sometime this summer.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/index.html
 

Inkara1

Well-Known Member
One slight problem with an electric car for me. In my financial position, I can really only afford to keep one car around. That means the one car has to do everything. I mostly use it to commute to work and for daily tasks such as Wal-Mart runs, etc. But sometimes I have to drive several hundred miles for whatever reason, be it a trip for pleasure or be it to L.A. to cover a playoff football game. I haven't yet driven my current car out of state, but that doesn't mean I won't ever do so.

Paso Robles to Atascadero for work is well within the range of an electric car. Paso Robles or Atascadero to LA is well out of the range of an electric car, let alone the trip back home.

That shortcoming is why purely electric cars are fine for bit roles, such as for meter readers, mail carriers, etc., but would never succeed in the mass market. A battery pack with enough range for a meaningful long-distance trip and a quick-enough recharge time (in other words, quicker than "overnight") might very well be possible... but would be cost-prohibitive to the average consumer.

Hybrids aren't fully electric, but they're a lot more popular because they don't have to recharge the whole night and they can be driven across the country like a regular car can.

But also, keep in mind that electric cars are "zero emissions" but still cause pollution. I believe that PG&E gets about 30 percent of its electricity from solar, hydroelectric and wind sources... meaning the rest of the power comes from natural gas-fired power plants, maybe a few oil-burning plants, and a nuclear plant or two for good measure. I can't speak for utilities in other areas of the country, but the point is, most electricity in the US comes from power plants that pollute the environment. So you're just transferring the pollution from the car's tailpipe to the power plant's smokestack.
 

paul_valaru

100% Pure Canadian Beef
don't forget about disposal of the batteries, when they are no longer rechargable.

Hybrid, and hydrogen are the future.
 

Inkara1

Well-Known Member
Diesel hybrids seem like a good idea to me for maximizing fuel economy, since a diesel already gets good mileage for its size anyway... I'd just wonder if it could be consistently started up in time for when it's needed, with glow plugs and all.
 

paul_valaru

100% Pure Canadian Beef
Inkara1 said:
Diesel hybrids seem like a good idea to me for maximizing fuel economy, since a diesel already gets good mileage for its size anyway... I'd just wonder if it could be consistently started up in time for when it's needed, with glow plugs and all.


modern diesels have no problems in Canadian winters, so I don't think it is an issue anymore.
 

rrfield

New Member
There's this car, it runs on water, man! But the government doesn't want you to know about it because the oil companies control the government

HYDEWHA.png
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
If you look back in history, the electric car is nothing new. 100 years ago, they tried them. Development was killed by two things, just like today. Range and cost.


The single answer to the electric car dilema is power density. How many Watts of power do you get for each kilo of mass hauled around. Electric cars today simply don't have the power density to compete. Refuel time too. Refuel a gas car .... 4 minutes. Refuel an electric? 8 hours.

Hybrids are a failure out of the gate. You might save a little fuel, but you loose most of your saving in hauling around double the mass of power plant.

And Spike ..... yeah, profit is a matter. Someone's gotta pay for the trillions of dollars of RnD necessary. That's called investment. You know what investment without visible potential profit is called? Taxes.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
Paul, do you know where most of the commercially available hydrogen comes from? Petroleum. Kind of defeats the purpose, huh? You can get hydrogen from water but it's frightfully expensive. Re fully electric cars,
There are some (relatively) viable alternatives for commuting, but (as Inky points out) most people can't afford the extra expense. I know I can't. Without some new, currently completely unkown technology for batteries there will never be a viable battery powered car.

The real answer to this problem is the one that no one in America wants to talk about. Efficient, reliable mass transit.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
unclehobart said:
Lets just go ahead and make the whole darn planet maglev.
Oh god no! Then we'd have to build noo-cue-lar power plants for electricity and shit. Everyone knows noo-cue-lar power kills babies.

While we're at it though, I grew up in the sixties and seventies and I have a question that I may have asked here before, but where the f@ck is my flying car?!?!?!?!?!?
 

HomeLAN

New Member
Professur said:
omeone's gotta pay for the trillions of dollars of RnD necessary. That's called investment. You know what investment without visible potential profit is called? Taxes.

BBS said:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Professur again.

Christ. I'd have hit you 5 times for that one.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
TexasRaceLady said:
I would love to have a small electric for my trips to town. *sigh*
There are usually one or two electric Ford rangers on ebay. Typically though, if you buy one you would immediately have to replace the batteries, so add two to three thousand dollars to the buying price. ;) I'd love to have one to commute in but who can afford that? I've looked at converting something but the battery cost is prohibitive.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Electricity requires energy to make, Typically it's coal or natural gas. (I'm partial to nuclear but hey, that's non-PC). So, in order to clean up our polluting automobiles, we're going to increase pollutants from our power plants?
 

rrfield

New Member
In the midwest elecricity comes primarily from coal. Natural gas is a backup...coal costs "about" $18 /megawatt-hour, natural gas fluctuates a lot but typically costs about $55 to $60 /megawatt-hour.
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
Therefore all these issues become moot
the day the first fusion power plant comes online.

You know, about thirty years after yer dead and gone.

So in the meantime, lets all continue burning up them
yummy dinosaurs and enjoy ourselves!
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Wanna lower CO2 emissions? Have a world war. 6 Billion is just way too many.
 
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