Why we should not leave Iraq
- Thread starter Gonz
- Start date
catocom
Well-Known Member
I think I need to clarify my statement there anyway....
When I said at all cost,
I meant militarily, and monetarily.
I'm not suggesting women at children to be drafted, or anything of the such,
or majorly sacrificing our infrastructure, but more like WW1, or 2....
When we were giving pretty much our all IMO.
When I said at all cost,
I meant militarily, and monetarily.
I'm not suggesting women at children to be drafted, or anything of the such,
or majorly sacrificing our infrastructure, but more like WW1, or 2....
When we were giving pretty much our all IMO.
Shadowfax
<b>mod cow</b>
Gonz said:
as far as i know, the government is the voice of the people, and should represent the people's position as well...
but besides that, i asked to what extend and which price this war has to be fought, and as far as i know, the decision to go to war is made by the government.
please explain that, if you'd like?
catocom
Well-Known Member
Shadowfax said:
We vote the people in.
Sometimes it's only a choice of the lesser of the 2 evils.
Also sometimes even when I think a candidate and I are on the same page,
it turns out not to be so. Some administrations have adhered closer to
what I was thinking, and some didn't even come close.
But
that's democracy, and that's better than the altenatives IMO.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Terrorists are born AND made. Some are born into an ideology and have the popular opinion introduced early and often. These people have a hard time escaping the ideology because of constant pressure from all sides. They are literally born to be "Anti-X". From father to son etc... If you kill the father, the son will rise up with not only the hatred of X for whatever reasoning was passed onto him, but also for the hatred of those who killed his father/brother/uncle.
If someone is raised to hate America...he will grow up hating Americans and when possible will raise a hand (with a gun in it) towards his enemies. Thus are terrorists born, and thus are they uneradicable (sp?).
If someone is not raised to hate but feels that he needs to be defensive or himself, his family, his country etc...and those that threathen those items continue to do so for long enough, that person may decide to become a terrorist. It's like pushing a wild animal into a corner...the results are often violent. With the choices of joining a militia or joining a guerilla org. in hand, he will fight for what he feels is right. In some cases, the militia doesn't exist or is innefective, and so being a freedom fighter (which is their term for it) or terrorist (which is our term for them) is their only choice. If you attack the country, you push people into defending it. Thus are terrorists made, and thus are they propogated.
So...a long parable short - you will never erradicate terrorists, nor will you ever erradicate freedom fighters..until the day where the earth is one big country with only one opinion. So long as there is an alternative position, there will always be a fight for each, and so long as there is a side to take, there will always be extremists who are willing to fight and die for their ideals.
If someone is raised to hate America...he will grow up hating Americans and when possible will raise a hand (with a gun in it) towards his enemies. Thus are terrorists born, and thus are they uneradicable (sp?).
If someone is not raised to hate but feels that he needs to be defensive or himself, his family, his country etc...and those that threathen those items continue to do so for long enough, that person may decide to become a terrorist. It's like pushing a wild animal into a corner...the results are often violent. With the choices of joining a militia or joining a guerilla org. in hand, he will fight for what he feels is right. In some cases, the militia doesn't exist or is innefective, and so being a freedom fighter (which is their term for it) or terrorist (which is our term for them) is their only choice. If you attack the country, you push people into defending it. Thus are terrorists made, and thus are they propogated.
So...a long parable short - you will never erradicate terrorists, nor will you ever erradicate freedom fighters..until the day where the earth is one big country with only one opinion. So long as there is an alternative position, there will always be a fight for each, and so long as there is a side to take, there will always be extremists who are willing to fight and die for their ideals.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Back to the thread.
From what I understand, the military forces aren't pulling out on the 30th. There's a transfer of power, but it'll be years before they can not only police themselves, but can be trusted enough to have a full-scale military of their own. Until such time, they're sitting ducks for whatever country wants their oil reserves and their land. I don't see a military pullout anytime soon. Perhaps in a few decades.
From what I understand, the military forces aren't pulling out on the 30th. There's a transfer of power, but it'll be years before they can not only police themselves, but can be trusted enough to have a full-scale military of their own. Until such time, they're sitting ducks for whatever country wants their oil reserves and their land. I don't see a military pullout anytime soon. Perhaps in a few decades.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Thanks..I guess. For me..it's a matter of reality and responsibility. We've made them weak (militarily and economically)...now they need to be protected for both their sakes and ours.catocom said:
It wouldn't do to have spent several billion dollars and, more importantly, the lives of several hundred soldiers and have it all fall apart shortly thereafter. Now, THAT would be a trajedy.
Shadowfax said:
Government is there to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity. With over 280,000,000 voices, it has to pick sides. Best to pick one that protects all.
Terrorism is an individual act of war. It is also a ideology. Countries, states, clans, peoples have had loathing for one another since day one. There have been wars; state sponsored acts of aggression to destroy, overtake or remove.
When the state is not the sponsor and an act of aggression is enacted, it is terrorsim. If the country from whence the terrorist hails or resides acts in a manner to end the acts(s) and punish the actor(s) or allows the injured to receive compensation for damages, it's usually treated as a criminal act. If the above scenario is altered it can be treated as an overt (Afghanistan) or covert (PLO) act of war. Sometimes the problem is internal (see IRA) but that's too much work to figure out.
If the country of origin shows absolute resistance to terrorism & acts accordingly, there is little or no retribution. If a country ignores these threats but is an otherwise allied nation or has goods and/or services that benefit, there may be less obvious steps taken (Saudi Arabia). If the country is on a shit list & ignores or otherwise promotes acts of terror (whether covert or overt) they will be reprimanded in some manner, ranging from (but not limited to) sanctions to all out war.
With that explained this part is easier:
Terrorism will always be with us, in the form of ideology. Some or many may hate & wish or demand retribution for acts or preceived acts against them. Thses can usually be worked out (through the judiciary or treaties). If not, well sometimes shit happens. Doesn't make it right. It is a fact of life.
If a person uses terrorism as an overt act, they can & should be killed. Kill enough of these ideological foes & the remaining may develop a sudden & strong taste for living. They may even settle down & get a life.
So, terrorism will never disappear entirely. Terrorists however may.