All of this hoopla...

[Aunty Em]

Germany attacked us?

I believe Japan and Nazi Germany were allies.

When you catch us stealing national treasures or resources, bust us. That is not why we're there. We aren't doing that.

I'm meerly making a general observation on what other people think of american foreign policy. Iraq is just a sideshow to the fundemental problem.

 

[outside looking in]

I'm not really sure where people get this touchy feely attitude that disputes are a matter of perspective, and no single party is "wrong."

 

[outside looking in]

Iraq is just a sideshow to the fundemental problem.

Iraq is key to the ultimate solution.

 

[Aunty Em]

Well if it's key then might I suggest that somebody gets their finger out of their arse and sorts it out... or are you happy that 30 troops have died since the supposed end of hostilities?

 

[chcr]

I'm not really sure where people get this touchy feely attitude that disputes are a matter of perspective, and no single party is "wrong."

That's a good point OSLI, I just don't like it when we're wrong. I have to agree with Aunty though, nothing that happens in Iraq really affects anything in the western world (well, the price of oil).

 

[Squiggy]

I think the best interests of the entire planet were served by us making the tough decisions that no one else had the balls to make, even if we get pinned as the bad guys for doing so. That's reality, welcome to it...

You do realize that that is exactly how Hitler thought...

 

[Aunty Em]

You do realize that that is exactly how Hitler thought...

That was the point I was trying to make in a roundabout way... he thought he was right too.

People will not be dictated to by someone following a different agenda who does not have their interests at heart. That's not freedom. Although I am of the opinion that freedom is an unobtainable myth used to pacify the masses.

 

[freako104]

We became the worlds police when we sat on our hands & watched Hitler damned near overrun Europe. Even then, there were many who didn't want to get involved. How do you think the world would look today had we sat home & watched football?

wed look even worse since my history teachers in HS have all said that America did help put him in power. and the worst thing someone can do when the world or lives are at steak is do nothing.

 

[freako104]

That was the point I was trying to make in a roundabout way... he thought he was right too.

People will not be dictated to by someone following a different agenda who does not have their interests at heart. That's not freedom. Although I am of the opinion that freedom is an unobtainable myth used to pacify the masses.

there is no good/bad no good/evil just two sides unable to see the other point of view.(Squall from Final Fantasy 8)
yea i know how dumb that sounds but i think it fits here.

 

[PT]

there is no good/bad no good/evil just two sides unable to see the other point of view.(Squall from Final Fantasy 8)
yea i know how dumb that sounds but i think it fits here.

I don't think it's dumb at all Freako, it's very important to realize that. Very few people have been truly evil just for the sake of being evil. Most have goals and ideals that they follow with a fervent determination. The US has done this ourselves, but since it was us, we don't view it as being evil, rather, patriotic. I think it's important to realize that as much as we can believe that what we are doing is right and for the good of our country, people like Saddam believe the very same thing, that what he was doing was right and for the good of his country.

 

[Aunty Em]

there is no good/bad no good/evil just two sides unable to see the other point of view.(Squall from Final Fantasy 8)
yea i know how dumb that sounds but i think it fits here.

What's really dumb is thinking that humankind can somehow evolve overnight and that everyone will suddenly be able to see the other guys point of view and that they'll all suddenly become friends, wars will cease and we'll all be happy... it ain't gonna happen because of basic human nature and the fact too many people have got their fingers in the pie and don't want to pull it out.

 

[chcr]

What's really dumb is thinking that humankind can somehow evolve overnight and that everyone will suddenly be able to see the other guys point of view and that they'll all suddenly become friends, wars will cease and we'll all be happy... it ain't gonna happen because of basic human nature and the fact too many people have got their fingers in the pie and don't want to pull it out.

I've never seen it put forth as a serious theory, but I believe that this agressive contentiousness tha we all seem to share is one of the prices of intelligence. I don't believe intelligence would have evolved without it. It's a basic survival trait, and I seriously doubt that we will ever be able to overcome it.

 

[outside looking in]

...are you happy that 30 troops have died since the supposed end of hostilities?

Do I really have to dignify that with an answer?

 

[outside looking in]

You do realize that that is exactly how Hitler thought...

It is a thought process that many leaders share, good and bad, right and wrong.

Your point, if there was one?

Besides, you get bent out of shape when someone suggests that the events of WWII have some relevance, since they are obviously not identical, yet you offer the above suggestion that Hitler's and Bush's (or my) thought processes were similar. Do I smell a hypocrite?

 

[outside looking in]

there is no good/bad no good/evil...

Umm...

 

[outside looking in]

...people like Saddam believe the very same thing, that what he was doing was right and for the good of his country.

Umm...

 

[PT]

Umm...

I think perhaps you misunderstood me. I do not mean to advocate Saddams actions, they are truly dispicable, however, I don't believe he did it because he enjoys seeing people suffer. He did it because he thought (as fucked up as his thinking may be) that what he was doing was the right thing to do. Much like Hitler, who thought the supreme race should take over the world, even though his thoughts are considered heinous by the majority of the world, he was still just doing what he thought was best. Who is to say what is best for the world, is what we believe automatically the way everyone should believe? That's pretty arrogant.

 

[Squiggy]

It is a thought process that many leaders share, good and bad, right and wrong.

Your point, if there was one?

Besides, you get bent out of shape when someone suggests that the events of WWII have some relevance, since they are obviously not identical, yet you offer the above suggestion that Hitler's and Bush's (or my) thought processes were similar. Do I smell a hypocrite?

Not in the least...There is a much better comparison here than what was purposed in the other thread...Bush is far more similar to Hitler than Sadam is..and its because of his thinking.

Now if you wanted to paint America in the roll of the Germans...(we were the aggressor this time)...You'ld be getting closer.

 

[flavio]

Not in the least...There is a much better comparison here than what was purposed in the other thread...Bush is far more similar to Hitler than Sadam is..and its because of his thinking.

Now if you wanted to paint America in the roll of the Germans...(we were the aggressor this time)...You'ld be getting closer.

Exactly.

Iraq was not attempting to invade any other countries and had a very weak military.

The US on the other hand used it's superior military force to invade and occupy a nation that had not attacked us with a degree of public support gained through lies and propaganda.

Which sounds more like nazi germany?

 

[outside looking in]

Bush is far more similar to Hitler than Sadam is...

I'm sorry, that one takes the cake, and earns you your first trip to the ignore list.