All of this hoopla...

[outside looking in]

Exactly.

Iraq was not attempting to invade any other countries and had a very weak military.

I thought you guys were comparing men, not the military strengths of two countries?

Off you go to play with Mr. Squiggles...

 

[ris]

Who is to say what is best for the world, is what we believe automatically the way everyone should believe? That's pretty arrogant.

i think therein lies much of what people see as difficult with the us/west - the applications of ideals, by force if necessary, that are perhaps not welcome.

 

[outside looking in]

I'm guessing that criminals don't welcome the application of force either.

There's a point burried in there somewhere.

 

[Aunty Em]

Arrogant men are unable to learn from their past mistakes and are doomed to repeat them again and again.

 

[flavio]

I thought you guys were comparing men, not the military strengths of two countries?

Off you go to play with Mr. Squiggles...

Are you having a little trouble relating leaders and what they lead their country to do?

Did you just want to compare physical characteristics? Ok, I'll grant you that Bush is missing the mustache.

 

[outside looking in]

Arrogant men are unable to learn from their past mistakes and are doomed to repeat them again and again.

Yeah, that sounds nice and all, but you can point to hundreds of people on both sides of the coin and apply that statement. So what's your point?



I suppose at some level this comes down to a basic question that is often skirted - is there an absolute wright and wrong? Can it only be decided on an individual level? Or is the concensus of the population the only indicator? Or if everyone agreed that murder was a good thing, would it still be wrong?

Not an easy question to answer, but it is at the heart of the problem here.

 

[Squiggy]

Oh dear ...Oh my...Whatever will we do now, flav?

Funny how suddenly osli wants to muddy the line between right and wrong....

 

[flavio]

You're right Squigs there's probably some sig material in here

there is no good/bad no good/evil...

Umm...

I suppose at some level this comes down to a basic question that is often skirted - is there an absolute wright and wrong?

Do I smell a hypocrite?

 

[Squiggy]

 

[flavio]

Apparently he has a bit of an odor today.

 

[Gonz]

The US does not have a history of conquering & commandeering countries. Hitler did. Hito did. Stalin did. Hussein did.

Yes, there is a black & white evil vs good. Unfirtunately, there are enough agendas to muddy the color pattern.

 

[Inkara1]

The US does not have a history of conquering & commandeering countries.

I think the Hawaiian group here would be more than happy to set the record straight on that one.

 

[Gonz]

Yes they would. While not trying to start that argument again, the Hawaiians had over 60 years to kick us out. (she abdicated in 1893)

 

[outside looking in]

You're right Squigs there's probably some sig material in here

I was perfectly consistent. Am I not allowed to express my opinion, and then ask the question rhetorically so that others may express theirs? Jesus.

 

[Squiggy]

The US does not have a history of conquering & commandeering countries.

Looks like we're going to now....

 

[chcr]

Yes, there is a black & white evil vs good.

I think that's pretty much dependant on your point of view.

 

[freako104]

The US does not have a history of conquering & commandeering countries. Hitler did. Hito did. Stalin did. Hussein did.

Yes, there is a black & white evil vs good. Unfirtunately, there are enough agendas to muddy the color pattern.

my reason for saying that gonz is that sadam doesnt see himself as evil nor do his followers. he commited evil acts by killing thousands i will say that, and in our eyes hes evil. however there are some who see us as evil yet america doesnt in general see itself as evil. we are two sides and dont see each others side

 

[PT]

The US does not have a history of conquering & commandeering countries.

Um, Gonz, you have heard of these people called the Indians, right? Our whole fucking country is based on Conquering and Commandeering.

Ok, just to clear things up though, I do still feel that what we did was the right thing. I do, however have a problem with our government, or any government fabricating evidence to try to persuade the citizens. If they had come out and told us the truth, I believe I still would have supported the action, but now I'm pissed cause they lied.

Oh, I know, I should expect the government to lie to me, they are the government, but I'm still pissed.

 

[freako104]

Um, Gonz, you have heard of these people called the Indians, right? Our whole fucking country is based on Conquering and Commandeering.

Ok, just to clear things up though, I do still feel that what we did was the right thing. I do, however have a problem with our government, or any government fabricating evidence to try to persuade the citizens. If they had come out and told us the truth, I believe I still would have supported the action, but now I'm pissed cause they lied.

Oh, I know, I should expect the government to lie to me, they are the government, but I'm still pissed.

you have every right to be pissed since they bsed evidence. but rememeber that altruistic intentions these days usually have some kind of agenda attached. a gov't shouldnt lie to its people but they will unfortunatly.

 

[Gonz]

Um, Gonz, you have heard of these people called the Indians, right?

And all this time I thought the English & the French & the Dutch, among others, were the culprits. We, as a nation, just finished the job.