Crap!! U.S. life span shorter

[Gonz]

Look at a volunteer fire dept vs a city fire dept.

Fewer personel
far less expensive
fires till put out
no unions.

However, in the spirit of this discussion, the US (and most-if not all State) Constitutions have clauses that make protection a priority & a government responsibility. They, on the business end, are bloated, inconsistent, full of red tape & improperly managed.

even sick people who they can't get large chunks of money from

Just like in the US.

More like short wait for anyone on universal healthcare or getting turned completely and dying because you're a "high risk" in the private sector.

I've never heard of rapid action outside the private sector. Typically, months are the normal waiting period in the UK & Canada while it can be done almost immediately in the US.


Let me ask you this spike...with your obvious discontent with the United States, why aren't you living in Europe or Asia (perhaps as close as Cuba)? The question is serious. I've yet to see you like anything the USA does or stands for.

 

[2minkey]

Nope, they'd look like the quality hospitals in most industrialized nations with great professionals and low wait times.

um, inky is right... trust me on this...

 

[spike]

Look at a volunteer fire dept vs a city fire dept.

Fewer personel
far less expensive
fires till put out
no unions.

However, in the spirit of this discussion, the US (and most-if not all State) Constitutions have clauses that make protection a priority & a government responsibility. They, on the business end, are bloated, inconsistent, full of red tape & improperly managed.

So you want to privatize the Fire and Police. Really?

I've never heard of rapid action outside the private sector. Typically, months are the normal waiting period in the UK & Canada while it can be done almost immediately in the US.

Do you have any actual data that supports what you say?

A Commonwealth Fund study of six highly industrialized countries, the U.S., and five nations with national health systems, Britain, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, found waiting times were worse in the U.S. than in all the other countries except Canada. And, most of the Canadian data so widely reported by the U.S. media is out of date, and misleading, according to PNHP and CNA/NNOC.

In Canada, there are no waits for emergency surgeries, and the median time for non-emergency elective surgery has been dropping as a result of public pressure and increased funding so that it is now equal to or better than the U.S. in most areas, the organizations say. Statistics Canada's latest figures show that median wait times for elective surgery in Canada is now three weeks.

"There are significant differences between the U.S. and Canada, too," said Burger. "In Canada, no one is denied care because of cost, because their treatment or test was not 'pre-approved' or because they have a pre-existing condition."


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76295.php

Let me ask you this spike...with your obvious discontent with the United States, why aren't you living in Europe or Asia (perhaps as close as Cuba)? The question is serious. I've yet to see you like anything the USA does or stands for.

I love the US and what it stands for. The current administration doesn't. I also love that we have a good possibility of getting someone in office soon that will start cleaning up the mess and hopefully work on the healthcare system.

 

[markjs]

I love the US and what it stands for. The current administration doesn't.

I'd agree with ya there, but no way in hell you'd get these cons to see it....Or any kind of reason if it tarnishes the current administration.

I also love that we have a good possibility of getting someone in office soon that will start cleaning up the mess and hopefully work on the healthcare system.

With the healthcare lobby being what it is, and given that dems are politicians too, and just as subject to pandering to those that pay for their campaigns as republicans, I won't be holding my breath on this issue.

 

[Gonz]

So you want to privatize the Fire and Police. Really?

I said that? Really?

I love the US and what it stands for.

You have a finny way of showing it. I don't think I've heard you say a positive thing about the US sunce you arrived.

 

[Cerise]

So your saying we should have universal healthcare for medical emergencies, hereditary illness, accidents, and any medical issue that wasn't brought on by lack of nutrition and exercise. I like that plan.

No, genio.

Excess calories and a sofa do not a healthy lifestyle make. Consuming too many empty calories and leading a sedentary lifestyle leads to clogged arteries, diabetes, high blood pressure, bad joints---it reduces the overall quality of life. And it's a choice.

Adults in the United States have one of the highest obesity rates in the world...."The U.S. has the resources that allow people to get fat and lazy,"

Anything else is Booooosh's fault!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[spike]

Excess calories and a sofa do not a healthy lifestyle make. Consuming too many empty calories and leading a sedentary lifestyle leads to clogged arteries, diabetes, high blood pressure, bad joints---it reduces the overall quality of life. And it's a choice.

What's your point? We shouldn't stuff related to sedentary lifestyles and stuff unrelated should be covered for everybody?

 

[spike]

I said that? Really?

You're not down with government run agencies in general right? That would apply to those too.

You have a finny way of showing it. I don't think I've heard you say a positive thing about the US sunce you arrived.

Funny, you've always seemed like the anti-American one to me.

Any comment about being wrong on the wait time thing?

 

[Cerise]

What's your point? We shouldn't stuff related to sedentary lifestyles and stuff unrelated should be covered for everybody?

I guess I missed the part where I said it shouldn't be covered.



My point is that there is much a person can do on their own to prevent the loss of their health and improve their longivity without having to rely on the medical profession to do it for them. Do you want dotors to treat the symptoms of a disease, or not have the disease at all?

 

[Gonz]

You're not down with government run agencies in general right? That would apply to those too.

the US (and most-if not all State) Constitutions have clauses that make protection a priority & a government responsibility.

The wait time thing? I don't know. I havent read all the latest studies. I just know what I've heard Canadians & Brits say. Not all but most. They treat you at their leisure-assuming you're not too high risk, then they don't treat you at all.

As far as sedentary vs athletic lifestyle? Who cares. The burden should lay with the insured, not the general popualce.

It's kind of funny. Insurance is the epitome of socialism. Take 100 people (example) & make them pay equal amounts to get a full coverage. The risk takers (the Insurance Companies) are then obligated to pay the bills of these 100 people, assuming they fall within the contractural obligations. The risk takers needed to get more money to pay for the coverage since, the insured decided they didn't have to pay more for their coverage so they coul dlive as they chose. The insurance bill started at $10. per month. The doctor (then) charged $17.75 per visit. Since people didn't go to the doc for stupid crap, the risk takers paid out less than they took in. Everybody was happy.

As is the case with socialism, the people realized they had no personal responisibility or stake in this so they took full & complete advantage of it. Whne teh risk takers could no loger manage on $10. per month, they upped the stakes. The people complained, but they also had a choice to take their business elswhere. If teh gov't runs the show-you have no competition so the people pay the bll. Eventually, it will overwhelm the system & changes will have to be made. And you'll have no choice.

 

[Professur]

Roundup.

I've heard already of towns that require a fee for fire and police service in the US. In fact, a search of this site would turn up a discussion of exactly that case. A house who's owner hadn't paid his fees was burning and the fire service arrived and ensured everyone was out, and let the place burn, while making sure his neighbour's house was safe .... he'd paid.

And as a Canadian resident .... Canadian hospitials are over run with runny noses and ear infections. If there's no waits ... why do so many Canadian rich folk go to US hospitals?

 

[markjs]

If there's no waits ... why do so many Canadian rich folk go to US hospitals?

....waiting times were worse in the U.S. than in all the other countries except Canada....

 

[Professur]

In Canada, there are no waits for emergency surgeries, and the median time for non-emergency elective surgery has been dropping as a result of public pressure and increased funding so that it is now equal to or better than the U.S. in most areas, the organizations say. Statistics Canada's latest figures show that median wait times for elective surgery in Canada is now three weeks.

 

[markjs]

Do you know what median means? That means half the folks still have a longer wait time than Americans. Half is more than enough for people to still be complaining. There is wait time for elective surgery in the US as well, it's not like this stuff is done instantly around here.

 

[Professur]

Having taken statistics as a mandatory class for my programming degree, I'm fully aware of what the median is. I'm also fully aware of how little truth there is in statistics. You'll pardon me if I talk from personal experience and observation rather than figures. I've spent a substantial amount of time in and around hospitals recently as my neighbour, my father and a friend died, and another neighbour and my mother both underwent successful cancer treatment. If you'd like I can even get the personal observations of my cousin in Scotland as her mother, my aunt, undergoes treatment for her recently detected cancer.


Frankly, I could care less for medicare. Everyone person who works in Canada isn't getting anything free. We could just as easily take the money we throw away to the gov't and give it to a private insurance company for the same coverage. Probably better coverage, at that. Medicare supports those who don't pay in, just like welfare does.

And, for the record, I have private health coverage with my work ... to cover the massive holes in the medicare coverage. Just like I have private insurance to cover what the mandatory 'no fault' coverage (again paid to the gov't) doesn't. Just like i pay into a retirement fund to cover what the gov't won't pay when I retire. Just like I pay into savings to cover me should I lose my job.

 

[markjs]

OK, I concede, that in Canada, of course you would know a lot more than I about it, but I am really curious and wish there was someone here from some of those other countries that could give some first hand experience they have had.

 

[Professur]

Aunty Em isn't too far off, and has first hand from the UK, Luis has from Mexico. I think Starya is Norwegian. And wasn't Kaz from New Zealand??

 

[Inkara1]

After what happened with her daughter, asking Aunty Em about helath care in the UK is probably a good way to get a very passionate and angry response.

 

[BeardofPants]

And wasn't Kaz from New Zealand??

No.... South Africa. I'm the resident kiwi.

 

[Professur]

I knew it was one of the attractive wimmen who didn't come around here enough anymore.