Empty holster student protest this week

[BlurOfSerenity]

The BG is going to choose the school with the "No Firearms Allowed" signs prominently displayed.

hey jimpeel! have you seen this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGqiULYbt5Y

BG: "gun free zone? dammit!" *walks away*

 

[spike]

if you're drunk, doesn't carrying, even with a permit, become illegal?
and at least 'round these parts, being a habitual drunkard precludes you from owning a handgun -- it's on federal form 4473, which you must fill out to purchase a firearm. and one of the basic rules of handgun safety is that drugs/alcohol and guns don't mix... basically, if drunken fratboy is carrying, drunken fratboy is not very smart and will probably have justic served upon him.
drunken fratboy -- or any person -- with car-keys is already pretty likely to pose a hazzard to himself anyone he may encounter, but you don't see people trying to ban cars, or keys, or alcohol

Comparing cars to guns gets a little tricky. I suppose we could look at the number of deaths, injuries, DUI's, etc from drunk frat boys who own cars compared with those who don't or something.

I think it's pretty optimistic to expect everyone to be following rules of handgun safety as well. By the way on that form 4473 do they just ask you if you're a habitual drunkard?

oh, and just because stirring the pot is fun, me with undeadexploder's SKS.

Cool, I have some pics out shooting a couple months ago here somewhere.

 

[BlurOfSerenity]

Comparing cars to guns gets a little tricky. I suppose we could look at the number of deaths, injuries, DUI's, etc from drunk frat boys who own cars compared with those who don't or something.

i agree it's tricky, i just always thought it was weird that so much energy is put into opposing guns when other things can be much more deadly, is all i meant

I think it's pretty optimistic to expect everyone to be following rules of handgun safety as well. By the way on that form 4473 do they just ask you if you're a habitual drunkard?

yes, that's true, but i suppose the same is true with anything.
i think on the form it also asks about mental diseases, past convictions, if you're the defendant in a domestic violence case, and other things too, i think.

Cool, I have some pics out shooting a couple months ago here somewhere.

i seem to have missed that! could you point me in the direction?

 

[Gonz]

If you have the RIGHT to bear arms ... why do you need a PERMIT?

Fuckin' A.

 

[Gonz]

Your choice. A college campus with an undetermined number of students trained and proficient in firearms use, carrying guns, nobody knows who or how many...


OR...


One nut with a gun mowing down everybody else a la Va Tech. The fact that said nut's possession of the gun was against school policy is kinda moot when dozens are already dead.

Fuckin' A.

 

[Gonz]

Why ban any weapons? They have the right to bear arms and all.

Fuckin' A.

 

[Gonz]

hmmmm.

i wonder if the founding fathers ever imagined school rampages. probably not.

When I was in HS, many people brought weapons to school during hunting season. Yea, it was against the rules. We were told to store them in the trunk.

 

[jimpeel]

oh, and just because stirring the pot is fun, me with undeadexploder's SKS.

Ah, yes, a very fine Yugo indeed.

 

[jimpeel]

So you just disproved your own point. If the level of violence at UNC compares to every other school then there's no effectiveness. Although one school doesn't prove the rule.

No -- by your standard the "frat boys" should be shooting the place, and each other, up on a daily basis. That is, however, not so.

Point proven.

 

[spike]

No -- by your standard the "frat boys" should be shooting the place, and each other, up on a daily basis.

No by your standard there should be much less violence.

Point proven.

That's not how proof works. We have no idea how many carry. There's no evidence that they are more or less safe and it's only one schoool.

That's hardly proof of anything either way.

 

[Gonz]

No by your standard there should be much less violence.

The places that have fewer guns have more violence.

 

[spike]

Where is that info?

 

[Gonz]

Crime stats from the FBI.

 

[spike]

Let's see em.

 

[2minkey]

The places that have fewer guns have more violence.

that's great.

i'm claiming my cat keeps russia from bombing my house.

they must be causally related because russians haven't bombed my house.

 

[spike]

that's great.

i'm claiming my cat keeps russia from bombing my house.

they must be causally related because russians haven't bombed my house.

That's common knowledge.

 

[jimpeel]

No by your standard there should be much less violence.



That's not how proof works. We have no idea how many carry. There's no evidence that they are more or less safe and it's only one schoool.

That's hardly proof of anything either way.

Violence come in many forms. Not all violence deserves a response with the threat of deadly force.

Remember, we are talking about the type of violence which can only be dealt with through the use of deadly force -- the taking of a life to save the lives of others -- like would have been used against the assailant at VT.

In your world, every time two guys get in a mutual combat fistfight someone should start waving around a firearm threatening to shoot the next one to take a swing.

The threat of deadly force is a serious thing. You go to a class and learn when, and when you can not, display a weapon and threaten to use, or actually use, deadly force. Brandishing a firearm can have serious consequences if one does not consider all aspects of the situation. People with CCWs go through a far more rigorous background check that when a person merely goes in to purchase a firearm.

The fact that UNC has no more violence, or any less violence, than any other campus is of no value whatsoever. The fact remains that there are armed students at UNC who are not causing any mayhem and, if the need should arise, they may -- MAY -- ba able to quell the type of violence that was visited on VT and save some lives.

UNC has fire extinguishers in the halls and classrooms. They are there just in case they are needed. Everyone knows where they are. There is no guesswork on where they are.

UNC also has armed students in the halls and classrooms. They are there and they may someday be needed. No one knows who they are so anyone intending the type of violence that was visited on VT will have to keep guessing where, and whom, they are.

 

[jimpeel]

No by your standard there should be much less violence.



That's not how proof works. We have no idea how many carry. There's no evidence that they are more or less safe and it's only one schoool.

That's hardly proof of anything either way.

Three school shootings have been stopped by ordinary citizens with privately owned defensive firearms.

Pearl, MS

Appalacian School of Law

Edinboro, PA

Not some anecdotal stories but real events which saved the lives of persons under threat by a madman.

 

[freako104]

Your choice. A college campus with an undetermined number of students trained and proficient in firearms use, carrying guns, nobody knows who or how many...


OR...


One nut with a gun mowing down everybody else a la Va Tech. The fact that said nut's possession of the gun was against school policy is kinda moot when dozens are already dead.

Of those choices, I like the first choice myself

 

[jimpeel]

You are standing before two doors. Behind one of those doors are 100 people who are legally carrying a concealed weapon. All of these people are law abiding citizens with no criminal record.

Behind the other door, there are also 100 people but only one of these people is carrying a concealed weapon. He is carrying that firearm illegally. He has a long criminal history of violence.

You must enter one of these doors.

Which one do you choose?