spike
New Member
Link?
We've had plenty of criminal charges against healthcare workers here too.
People here say our system is failing. Which it is.
Glad we could agree on something though.
Socialized healthcare care in action.
- Thread starter jimpeel
- Start date
Link?
We've had plenty of criminal charges against healthcare workers here too.
People here say our system is failing. Which it is.
Glad we could agree on something though.
jimpeel
Well-Known Member
No link, just common knowledge and personal opinion.
People come here from all over the world despite the costs. Why do they come here if it is so bad? They come here because they know that they will find adequate facilities, equipment, and skilled healthcare workers to address their maladies.
Yes, there are those who are in the U.S. who opt to bypass costs and get their procedures in third world countries like Mexico and India; but that is a cost driven decision, not procedural.
Usually some serial killer nurse doing mercy killings.
I gave a link to an article that says that three hospitals and their administrators are likely to be charged with crimes -- Kent and Sussex, Pembury and Maidstone hospitals which "blamed the spread of the disease on appalling hygiene standards."
That is unprecedented in the United States.
Do you have any examples of hospitals and their administrators beingg charged with a crime for "appalling hygiene standards" killing 90 patients and sickening 1,100 more?
"People say". What people? That is like the ubiquitous "they".
Politicians say that but they say that as an election year wedge issue. Do you have any links to persons in authority who are saying what you allege? I gave a link, and quoted text, to Brian Day, Canadian Medical Association president, stating thaqt the Canadian system is failing and that universal health car may not survive.
Goes to show that there is always hope.
spike
New Member
Until you show some proof to the contrary common knowledge is:
"the United States underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance."
Your personal opinion doesn't count when it's contrary to supplied facts. If you can show evidence then show it.
Usually some serial killer nurse doing mercy killings.
U.S. hospitals fail basic hygiene standards
You keep trying to prove the general rule with specific examples. That's not how it works. You have to show that in general US healthcare is better across the board. It's not.
Who is the ubiquitous "people who oversee the system are saying that it is failing"? Once again you provided one specific example and act as it proves the rule the world over.
I already provided studies comparing systems showing that the US system lags behind.
Rising popularity of medical tourism reveals deterioration of U.S. healthcare system
BeardofPants
New Member
doooooomed! yor all dooooomed!
yeah where would we be without imaginary shit to get upset about?
oh heeer come the commies, the fascists, the liberals, the guys that want to police our weenuses and our mattreses? holy jimmy floppenchrist here's my stubby choad!
Oh my... gawd. Nobody said anything about stubby choads!! 'Course NZ still practices witch-doctory & voodoo. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm short on lizard gizzards.
BeardofPants
New Member
2minkey
bootlicker
don't forget your goat leggings!
jimpeel
Well-Known Member
Yes, we may not be at the top of the list; but I will take "here" over "there" any day.
Read what those who are living the dream in Canada have to say.
Why Isn't Government Health Care the Answer?
By David Gratzer
U.S. hospitals fail basic hygiene standards
Yeah, yeah, and here are some similar stories on the hygiene failures in Britain.
Quarter of trusts failing on hygiene, survey reveals
Scandal of filthy hospital kitchens
Clean up operation
Health trusts shy of infection control standard
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Last Updated: 2:11am BST 18/10/2007
The extent of the failure to protect patients against hospital superbugs is laid bare today in a damning report that reveals a quarter of health trusts do not meet infection control standards.
AND THAT WAS YESTERDAY!
I can find similar stories on other countries as well.
Yeah, yeah. That exists everywhere.
Where Britons go, and what they pay
Nic Fleming, Medical Correspondent
Last Updated: 1:59am BST 17/05/2006
Recent years have seen a marked increase in "health tourism" driven mainly by people seeking to avoid long NHS waiting lists or to obtain treatment at prices significantly below those of private healthcare providers in the UK.
A survey published by Norwich Union last year found 74 per cent of GPs reporting increases in people travelling abroad for operations.
A number of destinations have developed reputations for competitive, good quality treatment in specific fields.
jimpeel
Well-Known Member
By the by.
John Stossel did a report recently called "Sick in America" that you might want to view. It is available as a Bittorrent file at http://isohunt.com/download/26260374/"sick+in+america"
If you do not have Bittorrent, or do not know what it is, simply go to http://www.bittorrent.com , get the client, and start downloading.
I prefer Bittornado as my client at http://www.bittornado.com .
John Stossel did a report recently called "Sick in America" that you might want to view. It is available as a Bittorrent file at http://isohunt.com/download/26260374/"sick+in+america"
If you do not have Bittorrent, or do not know what it is, simply go to http://www.bittorrent.com , get the client, and start downloading.
I prefer Bittornado as my client at http://www.bittornado.com .
markjs
Banned
Ya know, I read about a third of this thread and without ever hearing anything original, and I got so disgusted that I just want to say my piece and bail....
I am working on the zen mastery of stating my opinion once per thread and saving the next opinion for the next thread. Trouble is I am an idealist, and always wish to be understood, and I have to realize it isn't serving me.
Let me preface by saying that for every story about someone getting fucked over by socialized medicine, there is at least one about someone getting fucked by for-profit medicine, it's just that the money men in the medicine business are all Americans, and we have the greatest propagnda machine in the world's history. We have the most computers and this ought to be the national anthem, because this is what America has devolved to:
Neither for profit medicine nor socialized medicinge is perfect, and in my mind neither is really right....
It's all about who you are, and what your perspective is, and what your experience is, where your beliefs fall. Unfortunately its hard wired into American culture that Americans are always better than the rest of you people of the world, and even when we are wrong, it's better to lie, bluff, or evade, and try and prove we are at least more right by percentage, than to evolve, or at least try to.
This is my opinion (but my best effort at being "Vulcan", and objective about it) but here is my view on American politicians:
Republicans = Anarchists that want just enough law to make them personally happy, and could give a fuck about anything beyond me and mine. On the one hand its all about naked greed and love of money, but one really nice thing about it is that they barely make a pretense of lying about that, or at least do so poorly that they are obvious, kudos for being "what you see is what you get" Unfortunately some of the worlds most dangerous fanatical religious zealots make up a large part of this party. Probably the religious faction of this party are potentially, and majorily one of the greatest evil's the world has ever known. They call themselves "Christians", but I firmly believe they have no clue what Jesus Christ wanted that word to mean. Money may be the root of most evil, but "religion" is equally guilty.
Democrats = Idealists that love money. They want to make everyone happy, but know they cant, so they want enough money to be comfortable, and easy conscience enough so they can sleep at night, and they want to care about something and often make an effort, but bottomm line is in the final analysis, they are just the other side of the American one party political system. It's great to want to do do goody good bullshit, but in the final anlysis, I see no real differnce if you take them on the whole. Wanting to do good is great, but these guys are way harder to figure, and usually tend twords higher intelligence and an ability to see so many sides of an issue that they seem to waffle, they can talk a good game and sound good to more people, but its less honest, and probably makkes them less effective at acheiving their adgenda....
I gravitate twords them because I truly want what is best for all, or in other words, one of my mottos:
Culturally I am crippled, and damn it keep your hands off my pittance! I want not to love money, but I was raised to, tailor made to....
Thats why if you label me politically call me progressive because that is apt. I believe in getting better, and knowing that perfection is unattainable.
I am gonna lay a huge confession and realization on you that bothers me not in the least, but will shock you and at least three of you might should go on suicide watch because this news could turn your world upside down....
Since my rebirth due to the twelve steps of AA and NA, my political leanings, which being a true progressive (by only my personal definition of the word, not what YOU wish it meant).
Are shifting slightly to the right as I realize that neither side of this particular debate is right and both extrmes are usually wrong
Bottom line is, most of all I wish that all of you never get fucked by the system that your goverment subscibes to, but at the same time....
I HOPE and PRAY, that all of you on the extreme side of the issue, socialist, or capitalist, ALMOST get ROYALLY fucked by the system you are deadlock subscribed to enough, that you at least start to try, to see the other side's point, and become willing to look at a compromise, that works better than either extreme.
I am all about capitalism, except when I think of medicine, but the AA/NA thing has made me grow up enough to see the right answer will not be at either end of the spectrum. I still lean twords a socialized system, but I am willing to look for middle ground that I never was not too long ago.
Its good to have become more progressive than I ever was before and realize that the only meaning of that label that matters is the one I believe.
I am working on the zen mastery of stating my opinion once per thread and saving the next opinion for the next thread. Trouble is I am an idealist, and always wish to be understood, and I have to realize it isn't serving me.
Let me preface by saying that for every story about someone getting fucked over by socialized medicine, there is at least one about someone getting fucked by for-profit medicine, it's just that the money men in the medicine business are all Americans, and we have the greatest propagnda machine in the world's history. We have the most computers and this ought to be the national anthem, because this is what America has devolved to:
Pink Floyd said:
Neither for profit medicine nor socialized medicinge is perfect, and in my mind neither is really right....
It's all about who you are, and what your perspective is, and what your experience is, where your beliefs fall. Unfortunately its hard wired into American culture that Americans are always better than the rest of you people of the world, and even when we are wrong, it's better to lie, bluff, or evade, and try and prove we are at least more right by percentage, than to evolve, or at least try to.
This is my opinion (but my best effort at being "Vulcan", and objective about it) but here is my view on American politicians:
Republicans = Anarchists that want just enough law to make them personally happy, and could give a fuck about anything beyond me and mine. On the one hand its all about naked greed and love of money, but one really nice thing about it is that they barely make a pretense of lying about that, or at least do so poorly that they are obvious, kudos for being "what you see is what you get" Unfortunately some of the worlds most dangerous fanatical religious zealots make up a large part of this party. Probably the religious faction of this party are potentially, and majorily one of the greatest evil's the world has ever known. They call themselves "Christians", but I firmly believe they have no clue what Jesus Christ wanted that word to mean. Money may be the root of most evil, but "religion" is equally guilty.
Democrats = Idealists that love money. They want to make everyone happy, but know they cant, so they want enough money to be comfortable, and easy conscience enough so they can sleep at night, and they want to care about something and often make an effort, but bottomm line is in the final analysis, they are just the other side of the American one party political system. It's great to want to do do goody good bullshit, but in the final anlysis, I see no real differnce if you take them on the whole. Wanting to do good is great, but these guys are way harder to figure, and usually tend twords higher intelligence and an ability to see so many sides of an issue that they seem to waffle, they can talk a good game and sound good to more people, but its less honest, and probably makkes them less effective at acheiving their adgenda....
I gravitate twords them because I truly want what is best for all, or in other words, one of my mottos:
Mr. Spock (one of my heroes) said:
Culturally I am crippled, and damn it keep your hands off my pittance! I want not to love money, but I was raised to, tailor made to....
Thats why if you label me politically call me progressive because that is apt. I believe in getting better, and knowing that perfection is unattainable.
I am gonna lay a huge confession and realization on you that bothers me not in the least, but will shock you and at least three of you might should go on suicide watch because this news could turn your world upside down....
Since my rebirth due to the twelve steps of AA and NA, my political leanings, which being a true progressive (by only my personal definition of the word, not what YOU wish it meant).
Are shifting slightly to the right as I realize that neither side of this particular debate is right and both extrmes are usually wrong
Bottom line is, most of all I wish that all of you never get fucked by the system that your goverment subscibes to, but at the same time....
I HOPE and PRAY, that all of you on the extreme side of the issue, socialist, or capitalist, ALMOST get ROYALLY fucked by the system you are deadlock subscribed to enough, that you at least start to try, to see the other side's point, and become willing to look at a compromise, that works better than either extreme.
I am all about capitalism, except when I think of medicine, but the AA/NA thing has made me grow up enough to see the right answer will not be at either end of the spectrum. I still lean twords a socialized system, but I am willing to look for middle ground that I never was not too long ago.
Its good to have become more progressive than I ever was before and realize that the only meaning of that label that matters is the one I believe.
markjs
Banned
Ideally, Left, stands for mankind, and hopefully the prosperity of all....
Right stands for, me, my money, my bitch, my gun, my carbon copy whelps, and fuck anything beyond the end of my nose and what I choose to care about.
Left, is good, right is evil, and that is that.
Truth is all of us on this board are some shade of grey but when taken to the exteme ends of it thats how it is....
I know I sleep well at night....And I hope you do, and somehow I don't doubt that you do too....
Right stands for, me, my money, my bitch, my gun, my carbon copy whelps, and fuck anything beyond the end of my nose and what I choose to care about.
Left, is good, right is evil, and that is that.
Truth is all of us on this board are some shade of grey but when taken to the exteme ends of it thats how it is....
I know I sleep well at night....And I hope you do, and somehow I don't doubt that you do too....
jimpeel
Well-Known Member
Then why do they espouse the elimination of mankind's most innocent creatures for convenience?
Why do they stand against the corporations which bring prosperity to all?
Why do they wish to take the prosperity from those who create prosperity and give it to those who never create anything but more bastard children?
Why did they stand by and allow the slaughter of nearly one million Africans in Rwanda?
Why do they wish to tear this country down through multiculturalism and political correctness; and allow those who have no intention of assimilating into America to come here illegally?
Why do they stand arm in arm with those who break our laws as the very first act upon entry into this country?
Why do they stand against the liberation of an oppressed people -- part of your mankind -- by trying to take away the only thing bringing them that freedom; American soldiers?
Why do they stand against the religious spirit of mankind?
Why do they stand against the most important document ever penned by mankind -- The Constitution of the United States?
markjs
Banned
markjs
Banned
Final word of advice for jimpeel, and I am done debating you....(If there is or ever has been an evil opposite anti-me here, you are it. You are intelligent, capable of finding endless stories and facts to "prove" your OPINION, AND OR POSITION, is fact, and the tenacity to want to never give up what you think is the good fight, and those are all admirable qualities unless you are EVIL! For whatever reason though, I am Luke Skywalker and you are Darth Vader....or vicea versa depending on who you ask....LOL)
First a question....? Would you rather be right or happy?
First a question....? Would you rather be right or happy?
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
Yeah, looks good on paper, sound good too, and ofcourse makes you feel warm and fuzzy. ... keep hoping.
re-read jims post and see how your 'ideals' help mankind.
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
spike
New Member
If any of that were actually true. But no, just BS rhetoric.