The "unforgiveable" sin

[Oz]

I had my veiw of suicide changed dramatically while I taught folks (aged 16-60) with physical and mental disabilities

Before I took that job I would have said it was the "cowards way out".

While I taught at the college I saw a lot of people who were literally dying from muscular dystrophy, crippling mutliple sclerosis, progressive epilepsy.......you name it (including one 17 yr old girl whose skin was literally decaying off her body....heartbreaking). Then there were the people with both physical and mental problems......folks who couldn't communicate even with the most advanced technology at the time....a lot of these people had lived perfectly normal, healthy lives before various accidents had changed them.

In the year or so that I worked at the college there must have been nearly 50 deaths from illness and long term injury....and I remember quite clearly that there were four sucides.

Do I think these suicides were "wrong" "selfish" or "hurtfull to others"?

No.........because I can't sit here, with my hand on my heart, and say that I would have the guts to live through the kinds of hardships those folks did.

 

[freako104]

whats odd is mine never changed on suicide even after one of my best friends, Sal tried to take his life. I never forgave myself for going to class when he was at the alcove and i should have stayed. dont get me wrong I dont advocate it under any circumstances but I feel the person should be allowed to make that decision his/herself. If you are going to I will talk you out of it but in the end it is your decision.


But I want to say this:
Suicide is the cowards way out but it is an option

 

[Thulsa Doom]

whats the old standard? Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporary problem. There seems to be a confusion of distinctions here. Taking ones life because you are wasting away in a hospital bed or from some terminal horribly disfiguring and painful disease is certainly one thing but putting a gun in your mouth because you have a mental illness called depression is a completely different thing. the fact of the matter is most suicides are done by people who have mild to severe mental illness(es). For the same reason you wouldnt want someone deciding on a life or death choice when they are drunk off their ass (mentally impaired by alcohol) you ALSO wouldnt want them doing this when their rationality is fogged by manic depression or whatever. There are countless stories of people who have almost killed themselves who are now so happy that they are still alive because they realize what a huge mistake they would have made and because they just werent thinking rationally at the time. I really dont think we should be encouraging people to kill themselves if they feel like it. bad precedent.

I knew a girl whos always angry alcoholic father finally shot himself with a shot gun one day in his den. she found the body when she was 12. Did things suddenly become wonderful now that this troubled soul was out of the picture? not at all. the family fell apart and she retreated into an angry self hating shell herself. violent self distruction is NEVER a better choice for the survivers. no matter what the family was like.

now that all being said... ive always kinda felt that suicidal impulses must have some darwinian basis to them. especially if the mentally ill make up such a significantly high percentage of succesful suicides. but i guess i wont explore that any further really. also, is it true that suicide is actually an illegal act? if so who do you throw in jail?

 

[freako104]

TD there was a reason I said i wouldnt stop them. I see it as a form of euthanasia. i said I dont advocate it and will talk you out of it. but in the end I will leave the actual decision to the other person. None can make decisions for another person. granted there are laws and whatnot but here is the thing. If the person really wants to and sees no other way they will. And depression can be far more crippling than you know.

 

[A.B.Normal]

Re: The

*wonders what could possibly have been said to motivate ris to volunteer for the RW job*

Someone mentioned a "Job that Blows" and he volunteered figuring the juxtaposition of words was an "American " thing..





I had a cousin hung Himself a couple years ago,his Dad had killed himself when my cousin was just a baby. Suicide is a stupid word IMO thats why I said "killed himself".

 

[AlladinSane]

Re: The

Curious how so few people believe in life after "death".
Back on topic, I thing suicide and murder are equally bad...

 

[Starya]

Re: The

Of course, one should also not forget that in many cases people resort to suicide-attempts as a cry for help. In this category the individuals might not actually want to die, but they may very well succeed nevertheless.

My mother almost succeeded with one of her attempted suicides, her method was overdoses. Today, about ten years later she is mighty glad she was found before it was to late.

 

[freako104]

Re: The

Curious how so few people believe in life after "death".
Back on topic, I thing suicide and murder are equally bad...

I believe in a form of it. now back to teh subject at hand


starya is right in that it is a cry for help. but the problem is that people dont usually talk about it befre they do it, and when they talk about it it is usually cause they need the attention(but that does not mean to take it light hearted nor ignore them).

 

[Cheese]

Re: The

When I look at people taking their own lives, I generally like sorting it into euthanasia and suidcide itself.

I do feel that people suffering from terminal illnesses should be allowed to take their lives because it would be for the better as it ends their physical suffering.

But if we're talking about suicide in a perfectly normal human being, then I do believe that that IS the coward's way out.
If they need help then they should get help, but if their selfish enough to disregard the people who care about them then they probably deserve it.

 

[Mare]

Re: The

suicide is for quitters...unless you have some awful disease that is just gonna ravage your body and make your life miserable until you die....there are times when i hate life and would love for someone to club me in the head with a sledgehammer so that i could just call it quits but that's not what life is about....but life is all there is and i suppose if you can't cut it you can do what you like....even if it does mean you are weak....for me i prefer to think that it's all some kind of test and things have a way of working out and i don't know what tomorrow is gonna bring.


And I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry
Like a bird upon the wind
These waters are my sky
I'll never reach my destination
If I never try
So I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry.


kinda corny...but there you go

NOPE not corny AT ALL!!! And Live long and Prosper is a good one too..

(Love that song Tonks!!!!!!!! )

Some ppl say an eye for an eye!
I say Every dog gets his/her day!

 

[Gato_Solo]

Re: The

suicide is for quitters...unless you have some awful disease that is just gonna ravage your body and make your life miserable until you die....there are times when i hate life and would love for someone to club me in the head with a sledgehammer so that i could just call it quits but that's not what life is about....but life is all there is and i suppose if you can't cut it you can do what you like....even if it does mean you are weak....for me i prefer to think that it's all some kind of test and things have a way of working out and i don't know what tomorrow is gonna bring.


And I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry
Like a bird upon the wind
These waters are my sky
I'll never reach my destination
If I never try
So I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry.


kinda corny...but there you go

Tell that to the Japanese. For them, ritual suicide, though outlawed today, was a perfectly acceptable means of ridding oneself of a great dishonor.

 

[MrBishop]

If you are willing to give up everything that you own, everyone that you know, your wife/hubby/SO, your job, everything that touches you emotionally etc...by killing yourself then you should be equally willing to give up those things and people and leave...go into a hospital, get well and leave. No forwarding address, no phone calls or letters home. Give it all away, change your name and start afresh. If after a few years/decades of this new life, you find that you can begin dealing with your old life...then, and only then, should you consider re-contacting people you knew.

Leave a note. Tell them that this is your alternative to suicide and leave.

Killing yourself, or worst yet taking someone(s) with you, is far more harmful than packing up and moving away. It's less work, but if nothing else...life is worth living for.

 

[freako104]

Re: The

Tell that to the Japanese. For them, ritual suicide, though outlawed today, was a perfectly acceptable means of ridding oneself of a great dishonor.

that was a different time my friend

 

[Ms Ann Thrope]

Re: The

If you are willing to give up everything that you own, everyone that you know, your wife/hubby/SO, your job, everything that touches you emotionally etc...by killing yourself then you should be equally willing to give up those things and people and leave...go into a hospital, get well and leave. No forwarding address, no phone calls or letters home. Give it all away, change your name and start afresh. If after a few years/decades of this new life, you find that you can begin dealing with your old life...then, and only then, should you consider re-contacting people you knew.

Sorry, Bish, but I don't follow you here. To go and start with a new identity somewhere implies that you still have hope. Many years ago I tried to kill myself, and it wasn't because I hated my family, friends, job, etc. It was because I no longer had any hope left in anything anywhere being better. There was no one and nothing that emotionally touched me; I was numb. Every suicide and every suicide attempt is different, but I honestly don't think most of those who do or attempt to are people that would have the necessary faith to start afresh. They are not interested in new beginnings, only ending the life they have.

 

[AlphaTroll]

Re: The

Natalie, if given the choice now would you go back and do it again?

 

[Ms Ann Thrope]

Re: The

you mean screw up and live? or succeed and die?

 

[AlphaTroll]

Re: The

Succeed & die.

 

[Ms Ann Thrope]

Re: The

To be absolutely honest, I don't know....

 

[AlphaTroll]

Re: The

Well, I for one am very happy you never succeeded at it (thank God you suck at something eh? ) and I reckon there are many more people who have found their lives enriched by knowing you at one level or another.

 

[freako104]

just curious would you want to?