The "unforgiveable" sin

[Ms Ann Thrope]

Me? now? probably not.... But as to Alpha's question and my non-response.... 25 years have passed since then with the usual mix of joy and pain, none of which was powerful enough to sway me one way or the other should I have the power to turn back time now.

 

[IDLEchild]

Re: The

that was a different time my friend

The mentality remains. Japan has one of the highest teen suicide rates because those who fail to finish HS there (In Japan HS is actually tough) commit suicide since without a HS degree they are doomed and feel they have dishonored their family. It also has one of the highest 65+ age suicide rate since old folks there feel they get in the way of the society and its progress and many commit suicide out of depression because their families abondon them.

 

[IDLEchild]

Reading this thread and peoples opinion in general I find that when people comment on suicide most of them don't know what it is like to be at the edge, to be in that moment when hopelessness seeps in and hope, faith and loved ones are an alien concept and the last thing they think about. How lost and alone they feel and how truly desperate they get, they don't want to die but they see no other way out because what they feel and face at the moment is too overwhleming that it messes with the prudent state of thought.

Saying "Killing yourself is the cowards way out" is so out of place and I said such for too long before others told me of their struggle...it is funny how many have attempted suicide or been in that state of mind for so long but you'd never know it from their smiles and laughter.

No one wants to die or looks at death as an easy way out, no one chooses to feel the way they do when death is on the other side of the door.

No one wants to open that door.

But they do to let fresh air in because the room they were inside was eating them from the inside out.

 

[AlphaTroll]

Re: The

Another case in point are the number of suicide bombers in the Islamic millitant groups who feel that they are servicing God by becoming martyrs. They too feel that they would shame their families if the do not succeed in their missions. I am not so sure that the times are very different - instead of the Japanese kamakazis of old we now have Islamic martyrs, willing to give their lives to ensure that their ultimate goal is achieved.

 

[freako104]

Re: The

The mentality remains. Japan has one of the highest teen suicide rates because those who fail to finish HS there (In Japan HS is actually tough) commit suicide since without a HS degree they are doomed and feel they have dishonored their family. It also has one of the highest 65+ age suicide rate since old folks there feel they get in the way of the society and its progress and many commit suicide out of depression because their families abondon them.

I know honour was a big thing there I didnt know it was that bad tho

 

[Cheese]

Re: The

Another case in point are the number of suicide bombers in the Islamic millitant groups who feel that they are servicing God by becoming martyrs. They too feel that they would shame their families if the do not succeed in their missions. I am not so sure that the times are very different - instead of the Japanese kamakazis of old we now have Islamic martyrs, willing to give their lives to ensure that their ultimate goal is achieved.

I suppose that alot of people's actions would come from their education and environment.
I'm sure that if many of us were brought up in Islamic millitant groups then we would have a different view and we may become suicide bombers.
There will also be a large different between a child who grows up in Japan and gets taught the morals values of the Japanese as opposed to a child who grows up in America and gets taught the moral values of most Americans.


After all that, you'll have have those people who are suffering from depression etc.

So education, environment and mental health all contribute to the choices that these people make.

I'm nto sure if this post got anywhere...must eat.....candy...

 

[IDLEchild]

Re: The

I know honour was a big thing there I didnt know it was that bad tho

Yes it is. HS there is a torture and making it through is a big acomplishment and those who fail are distraught to no end (ironically college is easier there than HS).

Japan has a very strong mentality towards the benefit of society as opposed to American ideology os invidualism.

There is a saying in Japan "A nail that sticks out gets hammered down"

 

[freako104]

I know they are much more based around the group succeeds than western ideas of individual succeeding. but I didnt know that saying and I had heard their school system is hell but I have also heard that said about pretty much all school systems east adn west

 

[IDLEchild]

Re: The

I know they are much more based around the group succeeds than western ideas of individual succeeding. but I didnt know that saying and I had heard their school system is hell but I have also heard that said about pretty much all school systems east adn west

Yeah, American kids have it Easy in HS...that is why those who fail to graduate HS make me weary of their character.

 

[freako104]

same but they always complain

 

[MrBishop]

Re: The

Sorry, Bish, but I don't follow you here. To go and start with a new identity somewhere implies that you still have hope. Many years ago I tried to kill myself, and it wasn't because I hated my family, friends, job, etc. It was because I no longer had any hope left in anything anywhere being better. There was no one and nothing that emotionally touched me; I was numb. Every suicide and every suicide attempt is different, but I honestly don't think most of those who do or attempt to are people that would have the necessary faith to start afresh. They are not interested in new beginnings, only ending the life they have.

What if you'd been given hope? Someone came along and said "I noticed that you're depressed all the time. What if I could help you make it all go away?" and he wasn't refering to drugs or alcohol. Could you have borrowed hope long enough to remove yourself from that bad place called hopelessness and taken the chance?

I'm just offering an alternative to suicide. Change! Radical change leading to a new hope, one that can be borrowed and kept.

 

[Ms Ann Thrope]

Re: The

No one gave me hope...and if they had I wouldn't have taken it. Hope has to come from within. I appreciate your sentiment Bish, but in my case there was nothing anyone could have said. And I know there are and were others like me. They don't communicate their pain, so it is difficult if not impossible for others to see something is wrong. Borrow hope? Change? Both acts imply faith in the future, and the people I've known (myself included) who suffer from depression lost that faith a long time ago.

 

[freako104]

Mark I hate to sound cold but it is extremely hard to offer hope to someone in that condition. you can offer them something like friendship or something that they could hope for but chances are it wont help much. I am sorry to be so cold in that but I have found it to be a fact.

 

[Ms Ann Thrope]

Re: The

Mark I hate to sound cold but it is extremely hard to offer hope to someone in that condition. you can offer them something like friendship or something that they could hope for but chances are it wont help much. I am sorry to be so cold in that but I have found it to be a fact.

I have found this to be true, as well. Someone has to be willing to accept the hope s/he is being offered. And if s/he won't, and dies, it's no one's fault. It was his/her choice and s/he is entitled to make it, in my opinion.

 

[Squiggy]

From my experience...

I've always been passive suicidal. Don't want to kill myself but I don't want to wake up each day either...I don't think there is much that could ever totally rid me of those feelings. Massive change can distract me from them for brief periods. But, as the new job/location/companion becomes more familiar, I drift back toward the same outlook. I hate change. But I find myself grasping at oppertunities to change when I'm in a low cycle. And it doesn't neccessarily have to be for the better. To those outside my brain, it probably seems erratic, irresponsible behavior...To me, its a matter of survival. I've held many jobs in my lifetime. And I've done well at most. But even the positions that I thoroughly enjoyed could not save me from my thoughts. Sooner or later, the cycle would swing low and I would need to change just to distract myself again..And I'd be starting over at the bottom of the heap in some position that I've not yet experienced....Often, the adjustment period is the only thing that keeps me going...Its been about 20 years since I actually had a 'passion' for life. Twenty years since I was trying to live instead of just exist. What I have I give freely to others of similar or greater need. Keeping just enough to continue to exist. If I'm not careful, I could quickly become a Ted Kasinky...I'm not all that far from it. I can only hope to stop being 'passive' about suicide before that happens.... As long as I can still make people laugh once in a while, I'll keep going..

 

[Camelyn]

I can empathize, Squggy. I crave stability, but I am constantly looking for new stimulation. When I find something new, I obsess, until I loose interest. Then I fall into a dark down period, until I find something new to obsess on. It's an up and down emotional cycle completely of my own creation.

I think that my children have become a bit of an anchor, in a way. Because of them, I still have the same job I had 8 years ago, and we have lived in the same apartment for 5. But other things...
Relationships and interests....those burn bright for a time, then pale, and I look for something new and shiny.

None of this is nearly to the extent you describe, but as I said, I can empathize. If you ever find a cure, lemme know, OK?

 

[Leslie]

Re: The

From my experience...

I've always been passive suicidal. Don't want to kill myself but I don't want to wake up each day either...I don't think there is much that could ever totally rid me of those feelings. Massive change can distract me from them for brief periods. But, as the new job/location/companion becomes more familiar, I drift back toward the same outlook. I hate change. But I find myself grasping at oppertunities to change when I'm in a low cycle. And it doesn't neccessarily have to be for the better. To those outside my brain, it probably seems erratic, irresponsible behavior...To me, its a matter of survival. I've held many jobs in my lifetime. And I've done well at most. But even the positions that I thoroughly enjoyed could not save me from my thoughts. Sooner or later, the cycle would swing low and I would need to change just to distract myself again..And I'd be starting over at the bottom of the heap in some position that I've not yet experienced....Often, the adjustment period is the only thing that keeps me going...Its been about 20 years since I actually had a 'passion' for life. Twenty years since I was trying to live instead of just exist. What I have I give freely to others of similar or greater need. Keeping just enough to continue to exist. If I'm not careful, I could quickly become a Ted Kasinky...I'm not all that far from it. I can only hope to stop being 'passive' about suicide before that happens.... As long as I can still make people laugh once in a while, I'll keep going..

 

[freako104]

Re: The

From my experience...

I've always been passive suicidal. Don't want to kill myself but I don't want to wake up each day either...I don't think there is much that could ever totally rid me of those feelings. Massive change can distract me from them for brief periods. But, as the new job/location/companion becomes more familiar, I drift back toward the same outlook. I hate change. But I find myself grasping at oppertunities to change when I'm in a low cycle. And it doesn't neccessarily have to be for the better. To those outside my brain, it probably seems erratic, irresponsible behavior...To me, its a matter of survival. I've held many jobs in my lifetime. And I've done well at most. But even the positions that I thoroughly enjoyed could not save me from my thoughts. Sooner or later, the cycle would swing low and I would need to change just to distract myself again..And I'd be starting over at the bottom of the heap in some position that I've not yet experienced....Often, the adjustment period is the only thing that keeps me going...Its been about 20 years since I actually had a 'passion' for life. Twenty years since I was trying to live instead of just exist. What I have I give freely to others of similar or greater need. Keeping just enough to continue to exist. If I'm not careful, I could quickly become a Ted Kasinky...I'm not all that far from it. I can only hope to stop being 'passive' about suicide before that happens.... As long as I can still make people laugh once in a while, I'll keep going..

Joe you arent alone. there are others who know what thats like. i know thats not the most comforting thing but you aint alone mate.