U.N. report: U.S. committed acts 'amounting to torture' at Gitmo

catocom

Well-Known Member
Man most all that stuff in the first link is '03 '04.
Typical reports for wartime looks to me. What does it have to do with the Iraqi bunker thing? Nothing.

That second story is old news, just new previously unreleased photos. The
photos are news, but not the story. People were convicted for that Already. Problem solved.
 

flavio

Banned
Murdering detainees is normal?

What people were convicted and what punishment did they get? I thought you said there was no proof of torture?

The UN, Red Cross, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, etc, etc, also are saying that it's going on. Come out of the denial.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
Murder?
I saw no murder. I was where it said they were trying to escape.
Murder is homicide, but Homicide isn't necessarily murder.

and I stand by my statement that there was no torture in the case where
there was a conviction. ........
There was "abuse", but that doesn't necessarily equal torture.
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
So it's abuse and homicide you're cool with?

:rofl: Flavio putting words in somebodies mouth all the while decrying that someone is doing the same to him...:rofl4:
 

flavio

Banned
I'm asking for clarification not putting words in his mouth. There's a "?" thing at the end of the sentence.

Are you going to need the diagram or did you understand my response to your last post up there?
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
Murdering detainees is normal?

What people were convicted and what punishment did they get? I thought you said there was no proof of torture?

The UN, Red Cross, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, etc, etc, also are saying that it's going on. Come out of the denial.

catocom said:
Murder?
I saw no murder. I was where it said they were trying to escape.
Murder is homicide, but Homicide isn't necessarily murder.

and I stand by my statement that there was no torture in the case where
there was a conviction. ........
There was "abuse", but that doesn't necessarily equal torture.

flavio said:
So it's abuse and homicide you're cool with?

Yeah...right.

BTW...

1. How many people in US prisons get murdered and abused every year with no great speeches from you or your ilk?
2. How many guards in US prisons are punished for said offenses?
3. Who are those guards, and how are they punished?

The only difference between my questions and yours are that you demand answers for your questions, while I let the system take care of mine. Hell...even when I did post punishments and such, you made statements demeaning to those punishments, so why should anyone bother to tell you? Nothing is going to mollify your 'sense of outrage', even though you have no clue as to what you're talking about, or how to solve it other than running out on these people. While your main cause seems to be 'blame the administration' regardless of evidence, I feel that your true reasons are to be as divisive and scornful of anything not fitting your definition of life as possible.
 

highwayman

New Member
1. How many people in US prisons get murdered and abused every year with no great speeches from you or your ilk?
2. How many guards in US prisons are punished for said offenses?
3. Who are those guards, and how are they punished?

On that the abuses rarely make it pass the local news if it makes it that far...

Some statistics for the civilian population....

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169#MRord

It amazes me on the claimed abuses of gitmo or the death rate of the armed services in Iraq/Afganistan but what about the people that are being KILLED here....
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
highwayman said:
On that the abuses rarely make it pass the local news if it makes it that far...

Some statistics for the civilian population....

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169#MRord

It amazes me on the claimed abuses of gitmo or the death rate of the armed services in Iraq/Afganistan but what about the people that are being KILLED here....

Because nobody cares what happens at home. They can't blame the administration for it.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
Gato_Solo said:
Because nobody cares what happens at home. They can't blame the administration for it.
You're right about that but I've got news for you, Gato. The administration evidently doesn't care what happens at home either. :shrug:
 

highwayman

New Member
Gato_Solo said:
Because nobody cares what happens at home. They can't blame the administration for it.

Guess that they don't have the nads to take action, only to make laws that affect law abiding citizens...
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
chcr said:
You're right about that but I've got news for you, Gato. The administration evidently doesn't care what happens at home either. :shrug:

If the loudest people are so hell-bent on attacking the administration overseas, then why should they? They were elected by a majority, and the majority, while not ecstatic, is at least satisfied. If you break down the numbers to see who's really doing the most complaining, you'll see that for yourself...

1. Every policy penned by the current administration has been the subject of scorn and ridicule by the pundits on the left, and lambasted in the press, whether they worked or not.
2. This is his last term.
3. It doesn't sell papers.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
flavio said:
So it's abuse and homicide you're cool with?
Not abuse. Homicide possibly, like if they are trying to kill solders, or escape...

I saiddddd, The people that committed the 'abuse' were prosecuted. (or other penalties)
I didn't say I supported abuse, or as "you" said ...was cool with it.
 

flavio

Banned
Gato_Solo said:
Yyou have no clue as to what you're talking about
By totally abandoning your arguement above just short of a diagram you've made it obvious that you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about. This attempt to change the subject wasn't toooooo obvious though.
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
By totally abandoning your arguement above just short of a diagram you've made it obvious that you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about. This attempt to change the subject wasn't toooooo obvious though.

Okay. I'll make it real simple.

1. Name the people who commited torture. Not "amounting to torture", but torture.
2. Name the people who made the claims, their legal standing, if any, and where they were captured.
3. Prove it.

As for the rest of your ignorance on punishment, I'll ignore them.

Insurgents found guilty of possession of illegal weapons and emplacing improvised explosive devices



BAGHDAD, Iraq—The Central Criminal Court of Iraq held 24 trials last week convicting 37 security detainees for various crimes including possession of illegal weapons, illegal border crossing and emplacing improvised explosive devices.

In the first case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Ali Shaker Mahmoud, Lu’ay Farhan Thiab and Ziad Ahmed Abdulla for burying an improvised explosive device Aug. 26, 2004. All three defendants were charged with emplacing an IED under Article 345 of the Iraqi Penal Code. The Trial Court found all three defendants guilty of emplacing an IED and sentenced them to 2 years confinement with credit given for time served.

In the second case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Abdulla Fathi Ahmed for possession of illegal weapons after searching his home March 3, 2005. Coalition Security Forces found two pistols, two AK-47s, one machine gun, and ten AK-47 magazines. The defendant was charged with illegal weapons possession in violation of Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3, Section 6, paragraph 2/A. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty and sentenced him to 2 years imprisonment.

In the third case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Ali Salih Ibrahim, Yasser Fadil Hassan, Ammar Mas’oud Abdul Rahman and Allah Farah Abed for emplacing an IED near an Iraqi Police station Oct. 24, 2003. The defendants were charged with violating Article 345 of the Iraqi Penal Code. The Trial Court found all four defendants guilty and sentenced each of them to 3 years imprisonment.

In the fourth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended the below defendants after observing them establishing an ambush position along a main supply route Sept. 18, 2005. The patrol established the observation point because Anti-Iraqi Forces had conducted ambushes of Coalition Convoys for several months from the same point along the supply route. The defendants were charged with violating Article 430 of the Iraqi Penal Code. The Trial Court found the defendants guilty and sentenced them as follows:

1) Jassim Mohammed Ibrahim – 2 Years

2) Fhadil Rasheed Salih – 2 Years

3) Faris Bizai Jawad – 2 Years

4) Ahmed Mahmud Mizhir – 2 Years

5) Abdul-Rehman Mohammed – 2 Years

6) Khasim Mohammed Ali – 2 Years

In the fifth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Zahy Abdul Kareem after conducting a raid on his home May 18, 2005. Coalition Security Forces searched the house and found one pound of PE-four explosives, one assembled IED detonation device, one RPG Launcher, two RPG sights, one RPG hand grip, one RPG trigger mechanism, one SKS sniper rifle, three AK-47 assault rifles, two military radio telephone sets, one pound of gun powder, one hundred 9mm rounds of ammunition and two hundred PKC rounds of ammunition. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, 6/2A, Possession of Illegal Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty and sentenced him to 1 year imprisonment.

In the sixth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Younis Chalub Abbas for illegal possession of weapons Feb. 25, 2005. Coalition Security Forces stopped the detainee in a civilian vehicle driving after curfew. In the vehicle, Coalition Security Forces found an AK-47 assault rifle in the vehicle. The defendant was charged with violating Iraqi Penal Code 27/3. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty and sentenced him to 1 year imprisonment and a fine of 50,000 Dinar.

In the seventh case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Ahmed Jad’Aan Khalar , SaifAldeen Mish’al Dakheel, Mohammed AbdulLatif Ahmed and Najim Aldeen Mish’al Dakheel for possession of weapons Jan. 8, 2005. The defendants were found with two fully-loaded AK-47 rifles, fourteen boxes of artillery warheads, two boxes of unknown ammunition, two shovels, one pick axe, and one cellular telephone. The defendants were charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, 6/2B, Possession of Illegal Special Weapons. The Trial Court found all detainees guilty and sentenced them to 6 years imprisonment each.

In the eighth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Talib Ja’afar Ismail Al Musawi (Abu Firus) for possession of illegal weapons after conducting a search of his home Oct. 28, 2005. Coalition Security Forces found three pistols, thirteen AK-47s, four RPKs, one MP5, twenty-four AK-47 barrels, approximately 4000 rounds of 7.62 mm ammo and 1,000 rounds of 9 mm ammo, and $4,565 in U.S. dollars. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, 6/2B, Illegal Weapons Possession. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty and sentenced him to 5 years, one month imprisonment.

In the ninth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Adham Thirthar Mohammed for possession of illegal weapons after conducting a search of his home. Coalition Security Forces found photos of a burned out vehicle, one rifle carrying case, one green magazine pouch, one rifle buttstock, one leather pistol magazine holder, several rifle slings and ammunition cans. The defendant was charged with violating Iraqi Penal Code Article 27/3 of the Weapons Law. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 1 year imprisonment and a fine of 50,000 Iraqi Dinars.

In the tenth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Sultan Mahmoud Mohammed for possession of illegal weapons Nov. 14, 2004. Coalition Security Forces found two mortar fuses within the defendant’s vehicle. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, 6/2A, Possession of Illegal Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty and sentenced him to 2 years imprisonment.

In the eleventh case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Ibrahim Namah Macheet after the defendant fired on Coalition Security Forces from his vehicle Oct. 9, 2005. After the Coalition Security Forces stopped the detainee’s vehicle, the detainee got out of the vehicle and rushed them. The detainee had to be physically restrained because he was resisting detention. The defendant was charged with violating Iraqi Penal Code Article 431, Threatening another Person with Committing a Felony against His Person or Property, or Supporting Issues That Affect His Honor and Dignity. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 3 years imprisonment.

In the twelfth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Ziad Ali Matar after observing the defendant digging in a field near Ramadi March 6, 2004. The same area was used for weapons cache placements on prior occasions. After the defendant was detained, a search of his vehicle, which was parked within several meters of the hole he was digging, revealed fifty RPG-7s, three 120mm mortars, one CS grenade and two RPG launchers. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, 6/2A, Possession of Illegal Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 2 years imprisonment.

In the thirteenth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Yassir Khudhr Abdul Raheem for possessing numerous stolen identification cards and illegal weapons Jan. 11, 2005. Coalition Security Forces searched the defendant’s vehicle and found one AK-47 rifle and two grenades. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/6/2A/2003. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty and sentenced him to 2 years imprisonment.

In the fourteenth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Falah Hassan Abbas for possession of illegal weapons when Coalition Security Forces found five AK-47s, two shotguns, two 9mm pistols, one long rifle, ammunition and IED-making materials in the defendant’s home. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, 6/2A, Possession of Illegal Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 1 year imprisonment plus 100,000 Iraqi Dinars.

In the fifteenth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Sultan Ali Dawi for possession of illegal weapons Jan. 30, 2005. Coalition Security Forces searched the defendant’s vehicle and found one PK Machine gun, two 7.62 Ammunition Boxes one RPG Launcher. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, Section 6/2B, Possession of Illegal Special Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 5 years and 1 month imprisonment.

In the sixteenth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Na’yef Dalaf Omar for possession of four hand grenades and an explosive belt Nov. 7, 2003. The defendant acknowledged responsibility for the contraband. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, Section 6/2B, Possession of Illegal Special Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 1 year imprisonment and a fine of $1,000 U. S. Dollars.

In the seventeenth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Emad Abdulla Mishaal after finding three RPG explosive powder sticks hidden around the perimeter of his home July 6, 2004. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, Section 6/2B, Possession of Illegal Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 7 years imprisonment.

In the eighteenth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Hassan Mohammed Abdullah, a Saudi national, for entering the country of Iraq illegally to assist the insurgency against the government of Iraq Nov. 28, 2004. The defendant was charged with violating Article 194, of the Iraqi Penal Code, for organizing, heading, leading, or joining armed groups. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to Life (20 years) imprisonment.

In the nineteenth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Wafiak Mohammed Shihata on suspicion that he allegedly had a weapons cache near his home, was suspected of kidnapping, and may have been involved with five IED explosions near his home July 5, 2005. The defendant was charged with violating Article 1246, Iraqi Passport Law. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 2 years imprisonment.

In the twentieth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Mohammed Ali Hammadi for possession of illegal weapons Oct. 13, 2004. Coalition Security Forces searched the home of the defendant and found eight AK47 rifles, one SKS rifle and seventeen AK magazines. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, Section 6/2A, Possession of Illegal Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to pay 100,000 Iraqi Dinar. If the detainee cannot pay the penalty, then he will be imprisoned for 6 months.

In the twenty-first case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Sa’ed Khamis Abdulla for possession of explosives Aug. 3, 2005. Coalition Security Forces searched the defendant’s home and found a live artillery round on the roof of his residence. The defendant was charged with violating Article 344, Iraqi Penal Code, Possession of Explosives. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 6 months imprisonment and a fine of 50,000 Iraqi Dinar.

In the twenty-second case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Nassir Abed Ali Hussein for possession of illegal special weapons April 25, 2004. Coalition Security Forces searched the home of the defendant and found twenty-four mortar rounds, mortar fuses, five mortar tubes, two RPK rifles, one RPK magazine and a bag full of RPK ammunition, two RPG launchers and one RPG grenade. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, Section 6, Paragraph 2/B, Possession of Illegal Special Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 5 years and 1 month imprisonment.

In the twenty-third case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Tha’er Mohammed Sulayman for illegal border crossing Jan. 4, 2005. The defendant was charged with violating Article 10/1/A of the Iraqi Passport Law, Illegal Border Crossing. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 6 years imprisonment.

In the twenty-fourth case, Coalition Security Forces apprehended Yassir Khudhr Abdul Raheem for possessing numerous stolen identification cards and illegal weapons Jan. 11, 2005. Coalition Security Forces searched the defendant’s vehicle and house and found one AK-47 rifle and two grenades. The defendant was charged with violating Coalition Provisional Authority Order 3/2003, Section 6/2A, Possession of Illegal Weapons. The Trial Court found the defendant guilty of the charge and sentenced him to 2 years imprisonment.

Upon conviction, all defendants are turned over to the Iraqi Corrections Service to serve their sentences.

To date, the CCCI has held 919 trials of insurgents suspected of anti-Iraqi and anti-Coalition activities threatening the security of Iraq and targeting MNF-I. These proceedings have resulted in 822 individual convictions with sentences ranging up to 30 years imprisonment.

Especially when attempted murder only nets you 2 years...
 

flavio

Banned
Gato_Solo said:
Okay. I'll make it real simple.

1. Name the people who commited torture. Not "amounting to torture", but torture.
2. Name the people who made the claims, their legal standing, if any, and where they were captured.
3. Prove it.
You want more names and evidence from me but still have yet to provide any at all for your claim?

As for the rest of your ignorance on punishment, I'll ignore them.

Especially when attempted murder only nets you 2 years...
Attempted murder-> "only" nets you two years

But you consider an honorable discharge for murder a grave punishment? Now that would be some serious ignorance.
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
You want more names and evidence from me but still have yet to provide any at all for your claim?

Because you still haven't named any guilty parties. Just people who got blamed. There were investigations, and, for the most part, they were cleared. That's in the article you posted.

flavio said:
Attempted murder-> "only" nets you two years

But you consider an honorable discharge for murder a grave punishment? Now that would be some serious ignorance.

Now, who got an honorable discharge for murder?
 

flavio

Banned
Gato_Solo said:
Because you still haven't named any guilty parties. Just people who got blamed. There were investigations, and, for the most part, they were cleared. That's in the article you posted.
Quit trying to play games :yawn3:
I have provided several sources of evidence yet you have not provided any.

Do you have any evidence for this claim or not? -> "the persons in charge and the persons carrying out this act were duly punished".

That's the answer you're avoiding, and doing a piss-poor job of it as well. As for quibbling...I believe you are the defining member of that term when you are at a loss for answers...such as now.

Now, who got an honorable discharge for murder?
On April 14, 2004 Lieutenant Ilario Pantano of the United States Marine Corps, killed two unarmed captives. Lieutenant Pantano was later to claim that the captives had advanced on him in a threatening manner. But this contradicted the official statement he made to military investigators in June 2004. Further, in his June statement he explained that he had emptied two entire magazines into their bodies in order "to send a message". Lieutenant Pantano admitted to placing a warning over his captive's corpses. The officer who presided over his article 32 hearing recommended a court martial for his body desecration. But all charges against Lieutenant Pantano were dropped, and he was able to resign from the Marines with an honorable discharge
 
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