A threat to US military from the Dems

[spike]

Spike, Los Lobos would be in a completely different section than Lords of Acid. Not that it's relevant to my point at all. Not that you've even attempted to address my point.

There was a point that needed addressing?

 

[highwayman]

Well, you don't constantly spew the same rhetoric, so it's a bit harder to stereotype one of your posts.

Thanks...

 

[chcr]

That would be Charlies buds. FOr that matter, that would describe ole Chuck.

In my experience it describes anyone you don't specifically agree with.

 

[Gato_Solo]

The last real war we fought was WWII. There was a clear objective, and nobody asked for a timeline because we knew you couldn't apply such stupidity to a war. We've forgotten that the way you win a war is to beat the enemy into submission, not just to reach some nebulous 'objective' put forth by the foolish and the ignorant...

 

[chcr]

The last real war we fought was WWII. There was a clear objective, and nobody asked for a timeline because we knew you couldn't apply such stupidity to a war. We've forgotten that the way you win a war is to beat the enemy into submission, not just to reach some nebulous 'objective' put forth by the foolish and the ignorant...

That sounds familiar although I prefer "Stand on their necks until they capitulate." This is exactly why I always say that the "war on terror" and "the war on drugs" (not to mention the "war on poverty") are merely marketing ploys. The problem is that most people think they're too civilized for real war. I didn't believe the reasons given for the "war" in Iraq and I don't agree that it does anything for our national security (the only legitimate reason for war, IMO) but for christ's sake stop talking about how you're going to win the war when you aren't and really have no serious intention of trying to.

The you I refer to here is not you, Gato, but rather our "fearless" leaders.

"Hey Rummy, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat."

 

[Gonz]

In my experience it describes anyone you don't specifically agree with.

What a surprise. Perhaps it's because they, typically, are liberals.

This is exactly why I always say that the "war on terror" and "the war on drugs" (not to mention the "war on poverty") are merely marketing ploys.

The war on drugs & poverty (and a million other things) I completely agree. However, we have been attacked by terrorists on several continents & througout several Preidential terms. The current dweeb is a single minded SOB & he is serious about this. He's allowed it to BE his Presidency. Right or wrong, he believes in what he is doing, even when the people fluctuate on their views. He is acting like a leader. Question is, what happens with his predecessor?

 

[chcr]

The war on drugs & poverty (and a million other things) I completely agree. However, we have been attacked by terrorists on several continents & througout several Preidential terms. The current dweeb is a single minded SOB & he is serious about this. He's allowed it to BE his Presidency. Right or wrong, he believes in what he is doing, even when the people fluctuate on their views. He is acting like a leader. Question is, what happens with his predecessor?

Ahh... Clinton's fault. I might have known. Are you safer from terrorists now than you were under Billy Blowjob? Doesn't look that way to me. Why then would you still be screaming about the incredible peril. As I've said before, I'm certain the terrorists are gratified by your reaction.

 

[Gonz]

My mistake. I didn't mean predecessor. Brain fart. I mean successor.

Are you safer from terrorists now than you were under Billy Blowjob?

He allowed Americans to be attacked no less than 5 times and had zero response. GW stopped at once. So, yea, we're safer.

 

[spike]

Spike, either provide a link to the source or dont put it back up.
Sam

 

[Gonz]

Since I know damned well that's not yours, provide a link please.

 

[spike]

Oh, I heard it from an eyewitness acount. By your rules I don't need a link if I say that.

 

[Gonz]

Read the AUP.

 

[highwayman]

Since I know damned well that's not yours, provide a link please.

spike is getting desporate....

 

[Inkara1]

Oh, I heard it from an eyewitness acount. By your rules I don't need a link if I say that.

Maybe if you actually did hear it from an eyewitness account...

 

[chcr]

My mistake. I didn't mean predecessor. Brain fart. I mean successor.



He allowed Americans to be attacked no less than 5 times and had zero response. GW stopped at once. So, yea, we're safer.

But the danger is always greater everytime you talk about it. I'm confused. Anyone else?

 

[Gonz]

Lessee, no attacks is good. An active military campaign provides security.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, a political party that second guesses every move, delights in bad news, practically runs the media, spreads disinformation far & wide, cowtows to the enemy & hobnobs with rich anti-American groups, while looking for additional power, makes us potentially less safe. Especially when they dreail attempts to stop people like Wasshisnamejihad from obtaining what they think we shouldn't have in the first place.

The score is Safer, 1...potential catastrophe (given hints already provided) 1.

Tied game.

 

[chcr]

Lessee, no attacks is good. An active military campaign provides security.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, a political party that second guesses every move, delights in bad news, practically runs the media, spreads disinformation far & wide, cowtows to the enemy & hobnobs with rich anti-American groups, while looking for additional power, makes us potentially less safe. Especially when they dreail attempts to stop people like Wasshisnamejihad from obtaining what they think we shouldn't have in the first place.

The score is Safer, 1...potential catastrophe (given hints already provided) 1.

Tied game.

Then your saying we're better off except that we're not any better off...

Safer and yet less safe, more and yet less secure, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum...

The sad thing is that you're simply repeating what the government is telling you and yet it never seems to occur to you that something is wrong with it.

 

[PT]

Anybody could do better than the current guy.

DUBYA was meeting with the Taliban from 1998 through March of 2001 on an gas pipeline deal.

Democrats under President Clinton;

- sent legislation to Congress to tighten airport security BEFORE 9/11. (The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.)

- sent legislation to Congress to allow for better tracking of terrorist funding. (It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.)

- sent legislation to Congress to add tagging agents to explosives, to allow for better tracking of explosives used by terrorists. (It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.)

When Republicans couldn't prevent executive action, Democrat President Clinton:

- Developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy.

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.

-Stopped a planned attack to blow up Boston airport.

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.

- Tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the GOP).

- Brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.

- Did not blame Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after they had left office. Instead, worked hard and successfully to stop future terrorist attacks.

- Named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.

- Tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.

- Detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries

- Created a national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.


- Robert Oakley, Reagan Counterterrorism Czar says of Democrat Clinton's efforts "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama..."

- Paul Bremer, Bush's Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley saying he believed the Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden."

- Barton Gellman of the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort."

Here, in stark contrast, is part of the Bush-Cheney anti-terrorism record before September 11, 2001:

-- Backed off Clinton administration's anti-terrorism efforts.

-- Shelved the Hart-Rudman report.

-- Appointed new anti-terrorism task force under Dick Cheney. Group did not even meet before 9/11.

-- Called for cuts in anti-terrorism efforts by the Department of Defense.

-- Gave no priority to anti-terrorism efforts by Justice Department.

-- Ignored warnings from Sandy Berger, Louis Freeh, George Tennant, Paul Bremer, and Richard Clarke about the urgency of terrorist threats.

-- Halted Predator drone tracking of Osama bin Laden.

-- Did nothing in wake of August 6 C.I.A. report to president saying Al Qaeda attack by hijack of an airliner almost certain.

-- Bush - knowing about the terrorists' plans to attack in America, warned that terrorists were in flight schools in the US - took a four week vacation.

-- By failing to order any coordination of intelligence data, missed opportunity to stop the 9/11 plot as Clinton-Gore had stopped the millennium plots.

-- Blamed President Clinton for 9/11. "

You need to quit bringing facts into the argument. Surely you know by now its all Clintons fault. ABC said so dammit. And FOX agrees. What else do you need to know? Facts just muddy the waters.

 

[Gato_Solo]

You need to quit bringing facts into the argument. Surely you know by now its all Clintons fault. ABC said so dammit. And FOX agrees. What else do you need to know? Facts just muddy the waters.

Psst...I think somebody just wants links. Spike says he was an eyewitness, and has been called on it...trying to use my example. The thing he doesn't acknowledge is that I was actually in Iraq. Where else could I possibly get Stories lie these? They weren't in the media at home...

 

[RDX]

I’m tired of seeing that BS that spike posted on half the forums I visit. Who knows who made it up, the original author certainly didn’t want his name on it.

DUBYA was meeting with the Taliban from 1998 through March of 2001 on an gas pipeline deal.

President Bush was NOT meeting with the Taliban for 3 years over a pipeline deal. Enron was merely doing a feasability study on installing a pipeline through Afghanistan. That is all. Enron can do whatever they want. Bush does not control Enron.

- sent legislation to Congress to tighten airport security BEFORE 9/11. (The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.)

I have no idea what legislation you are talking about here, but legislation was passed (with the approval of both dems and republicans) increasing airport security.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9610/09/faa/

- sent legislation to Congress to allow for better tracking of terrorist funding. (It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.)

Actually, it was an executive order signed in October of 1995. There are no congressional votes on executive orders…
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-1480

- sent legislation to Congress to add tagging agents to explosives, to allow for better tracking of explosives used by terrorists. (It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.)

This one is actually true!

- Developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy.

The nation had an antiterrorism policy well before President Clinton. In fact, President Reagan did most of the groundwork in construction this policy
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB55/index1.html

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.

Well, yes Yousef was considering organizing a plan to blow up 12 jetliners. He was also planning on doing a ton of other stuff (like killing the pope, etc). Clinton had virtually nothing to do with his arrest and conviction. President Clinton did nothing to stop this “planned attack”.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1997/vo13no05/vo13no05_assets.htm

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.
- Stopped a planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.
- Stopped a planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.
- Stopped a planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

This was planned under Salem along with 4 of the next blowing up schemes on your list. Again, this arrest was made by the FBI with no order or special derective from the President. Because it happened under his term, he gets the credit though, huh?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1997/vo13no05/vo13no05_assets.htm

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.

I could find no reference to this planned attack, but I don’t doubt that it was planned at some point or another. Attacks or planned attacks are extremely common on embassies. This one must have not been very serious if it is not mentioned anywhere else

-Stopped a planned attack to blow up Boston airport.

This was actually under President Bush’s term in office (Jan 2005). Was there another one that I’m not aware of? I suppose Bush doesn’t get credit for this though, because he wasn’t out doing the investigating like Bill was in the other cases.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145152,00.html

- Stopped a planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.

This operation was carried out mostly by the Albanian secret police, although CIA operatives did have a hand. Once again, I bet that if any other president was in office, this would have never succeeded. Way to go Bill.

- Tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the GOP).

WTF? This is the most absurd claim ever. Clinton did make a few halfhearted attempts to kill Bin Laden, but they we’re a response to terrorist attacks, not preemtive. And no, the GOP was not against any measures to kill bin laden.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/sept01/2001-09-13-clinton-binladen.htm
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...27,0,6882572.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-print

- Brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.

LOL! Bill the Judge

- Did not blame Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after they had left office. Instead, worked hard and successfully to stop future terrorist attacks.

Well, he didn’t originally blame the Bush Administration, but after more pressure was put on him, he certainly did. So he is the one who has been working so hard and “successfully” to stop any more terrorist attacks after 911? Bill is the man!

- Named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.

And that did absolutely NOTHING

- Tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.

This sounds kinda nice until you consider that Reagan had a larger growth in counterterrorism funding under his administration, and that Bush increased funding by more than 3X in a year.
http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publicat..._for_Homela/B.20020924.Funding_for_Homela.htm

- Detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries

OK? I would love to see some sources for that one. I’m not about to waste more of my time researching the truth on that one.

- Created a national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.

And this relates to terrorism how?

- Robert Oakley, Reagan Counterterrorism Czar says of Democrat Clinton's efforts "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama..."

- Paul Bremer, Bush's Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley saying he believed the Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden."

- Barton Gellman of the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort."

And then a few quotes which have absolutely no objective meaning. Heck, I could find better quotes than that of people praising Hitler.

Now I’m at work and not going to waste any more of my time going through the rest of these half-truths at best. Spike, if you want any credibility on these forums, you’re gonna have to quit posting this BS and think for yourself.