America-Love it or...

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
leave it is a motto best left unsaid. Sometimes our government is no better than the enemy. Yes, it happens everywhere, even in ris' socialistic Britain.:D That doesn't make it better or any easier to accept. Don't the leaders of teh free world know France is the perfect test zone?

Chemical Weapons Tests by US in 60s
Tue Oct 8,11:09 PM ET
By MATT KELLEY, Associated Press Writer

The United States held open-air biological and chemical weapons tests in at least four states — Alaska, Hawaii, Maryland and Florida — during the 1960s in an effort to develop defenses against such weapons, according to Pentagon documents.

A series of tests in Alaska from 1965-67 used artillery shells and bombs filled with the nerve agents sarin and VX, the records show.

The Defense Department planned to release summaries of 28 chemical and biological weapons tests at a House Veterans Affairs Committee hearing Wednesday. The Associated Press obtained the summaries Tuesday.

The documents did not say whether any civilians had been exposed to the poisons. Military personnel exposed to weapons agents would have worn protective gear, the Pentagon says.

The Pentagon previously acknowledged that it had conducted biological and chemical tests, but this was the first time it disclosed that some tests were conducted over land and not out at sea.

The tests were part of Project 112, a military program in the 1960s and 1970s to test chemical and biological weapons and defenses against them. Parts of the testing program done on Navy ships were called Project SHAD, or Shipboard Hazard and Defense.

The tests were directed from the Deseret Test Center, part of a biological and chemical weapons complex in the Utah desert.

Some of those involved in the tests say they now suffer health problems linked to their exposure to dangerous chemicals and germs. They are pressing the Veterans Affairs Department to compensate them and the Defense Department to release more information about the tests.

In response to pressure from veterans and Congress, the Pentagon began releasing details of the tests last year. Earlier this year, the Defense Department acknowledged for the first time that some of the 1960s tests used real chemical and biological weapons, not just benign stand-ins.

"The Cold War era experiments of Project SHAD, which we are now learning used live toxins and chemical poisons on American servicemen on American soil, must be aggressively investigated in as open and transparent a manner as possible," said the House Veterans Affairs Committee chairman, Rep. Chris Smith, R-N.J. "Our focus must be on quickly identifying those veterans who were involved, assessing whether they suffered any negative health consequences and, if warranted, providing them with adequate health care and compensation for their service."

The Defense Department has identified nearly 3,000 soldiers involved in tests disclosed earlier, but the VA has sent letters to fewer than half of them. VA and Pentagon officials acknowledged at a July hearing that finding the soldiers has been difficult.

The tests described in the latest Pentagon documents include:

_ Devil Hole I, designed to test how sarin gas would disperse after being released in artillery shells and rockets in aspen and spruce forests. The tests occurred in the summer of 1965 at the Gerstle River test site near Fort Greeley, Alaska, the documents said. Sarin is a powerful nerve gas that causes a choking, thrashing death. It killed 12 people in a Tokyo subway attack in 1995 and the Bush administration says it is part of Iraq's chemical arsenal.

_ Devil Hole II, which tested how the nerve agent VX behaved when dispersed with artillery shells. The test at the Gerstle River site in Alaska also included mannequins in military uniforms and military trucks. VX is one of the deadliest nerve agents known and is persistent in the environment because it is a sticky liquid that evaporates slowly. Iraq has acknowledged making tons of VX.

_ Big Tom, a 1965 test that included spraying bacteria over the Hawaiian island of Oahu to simulate a biological attack on an island compound, and to develop tactics for such an attack. The test used Bacillus globigii, a bacterium believed at the time to be harmless. Researchers later discovered the bacteria could cause infections in people with weakened immune systems.
 
A politically active friend of mine wrote this, I'll only copy a portion of her article. It's a little long, but fits Gonz' post

My prayers throughout the day of 9/11/01 was no different ... I was overcome with horror, sadness, and fear as I looked out of my kitchen door overlooking the airport, Hickam AFB, and Pearl Harbor. I got numb as I looked out my back door at Scholfield barracks and to the notch in the mountain, Kolekole, and visualized all the nuclear weaponary stored just over that beautiful mountain in Lualualei Naval Magazine.

I kept repeating "just get the nuclear subs out to sea, just get them away from my kitchen door". My mother looked at me and could not understand why I was saying that and before giving her a lesson on "The Military Presence in Hawaii 101" I had to stop and think if I wanted her to sleep good, not knowing that Hawaii, more specifically, , and that the CINC PAC FLT, headquatered just up the street from us in Camp Smith, handles satelitte coordination of US targets. This of course makes us rank in the top 3 "most likely to get bombed" places on earth if you want to start WW II.

I reflected back to a conversation I had with an academic once in which the saying "ignorance is bliss" really made me understand how people who dont know whats going on in the world lead a different life from those who are burdened (willingly, or unwillingly) by knowledge and the responsibilities that come from that knowledge.

I shook my head and mumbled and couldnt bring myself to give her these same sick feelings I had. But its not like its a big secret. If a nobody like me knows about this, I am sure everyone who wants to know, does.
 
And this is supposed to surprise me? That the US does some pretty rotten things? Perhaps most of us forgot the syphilis trials in the 1930's to 1970's (dramatized in the movie Miss Evers' Boys').
 
Big deal ya all. I live in North Dakota and last time I checked we had more NUKES under our beutiful flat praries about than any other place on the planet.

I grew up looking out my bedroom window waiting for the bomb. Yes there were many(TOO MANY) sleepless nights watching the cold war on TV then hitting the hay only to not sleep. My bed was window hight on the top bunk of our bunk beds. I can remember sitting in first grade in 1980 and hearing about how the world had enough nukes to blow it up like 10 times over. What do you think that does to a young lad? I did not know back then that probablty half of the USSR's arsenol of NUKES was pointed right at me! I still must have felt it though cause I was one paranoid little kid. Half my child hood when I was supposed to be sleeping was spent staring out the window waiting for the bomb!

Do I blame the US for this? NO!

Last time I checked Hawaii was part of "AMERICA."

To relate this too actually using these weapons on AMERICANS is HORSE SHIT. They were testing their defenses against them not the chemicals themselves! How many people have you heard of in the US or Hawaii that actually got killed by these!

On a side note.......

Glad my MOM has the 9mm she does. Can't say how many times my EX-step father who has a restraining order against him has harrassed my MOM since the divorce. Jail doesn't seem to stop him as also the felonies he has against him for trying to kill my mom by strangling her! She lives about 10 miles from any law enforcement for our county and about 1 mile from any other house. If he wanted to anytime he could bust the door in and kill her and since the sheriff is 10 minutes or some of the time 30minutes away there is not a thing she could do about it. Yes I am glad I helped her pick out the SW 9mm cop special 16 round double action;)

Yeah I say if you don't like it leave! I am sure Al Quaida would put you under their wing if you wanted to go:rolleyes: Turn you into their nice little AMERICAN hating stepchild! You want to kill me cause I am AMERICAN? Well I got something for ya. I can't help where I was born but I can think of no other place I would want to be born.
 
Excuse me, ol/man, but your last statement as to "if you don't like it, leave" goes, Hawai'i didn't "join" the union - it was taken ... I think you need to look at your facts once again ...
 
And the fact that Hawaii was illegally overthrown and forced under gunpoint against our will to join your beloved America seems to escape you too.

And yes, we are trying to leave. America is holding us against our will.
 
*can't believe the ignorance of people after all these years*

Mitch, I sincerely hope that smiley face at the end of your statement means you're joking, lest I'm left to believe you are otherwise.
 
:confuse3:
Did you think I was being a smart-ass? No, I was not. You will not be able to lobby yourself out of America, just like America did not lobby themselves out of Brittain. You will have to kill those who stand in your way.

Do you have another plan or what?
 
Don't tell me to shut up. What do you know of the years and years of struggle and fighting that my people have been doing. At least we're doing something about it, and not just sitting around bitching and moaning and thinking every solution involves guns.
 
you seriously need to be educated.

You're going to tell me that American liberation from the English and the illegal overthrow of our government BY America is the same thing???? I feel sorry for your stoopidity.

and I'm with ku'u on this one. Fuck you.
 
Ku'u said:
...and not just sitting around bitching and moaning and thinking every solution involves guns.

Name one time, in history that events were changed by peace. THe course of human civilized evolution is the use of force. Bar none.
 
At least we're doing something about it, and not just sitting around bitching and moaning
So you're not bitching? You're out there fighting for your beliefs? Educate me and tell me what your people are doing about it.

If you think you can lobby yourself out of America, you are mistaken. How long have you been trying and how far has it gotten you?
 
Back
Top