America-Love it or...

[nalani]

ol man - do you like to argue for the sake of argument?

Yes, disease was spread by Europeans and American Sailors, that is a scientific fact - if you want to debate me on this subject, you need to do a little more research and a lot less yelling. Did I say "the bastards spread the disease"? no. Did I say "if they never came, we wouldn't have these diseases"? No. (Though it does stand to reason that if no one from the outside came, there would have been no diseases spread for which the immune system of the Hawaiian and/or other Pacific peoples could not handle - it's common sense. It's called "containment".) Did I say if anyone else came first we wouldn't have any diseases? No.


If you want to debate, debate like an educated adult. Do not put words in my mouth. Do not pretend to know what I'm saying if you don't. Your "Cybil-like" actions are remeniscent of another debate and if you want to argue for arguments sake, do it with someone else. You seemed to genuinely want to know the facts of our history and we obliged you. I will not make the same mistake twice.

By the way - Logic 100 (PHIL100) at your local community college. Look it up.

 

[kuulani]

And on another point, to assume that by the 1940s we only had "spears and maybe a couple of Muskets" is wrong. You want us to stop laughing at you and give your arguments credit? Then stop making general assumptions and learn your subject matter.

 

[nalani]

And on another point, to assume that by the 1940s we only had "spears and maybe a couple of Muskets" is wrong. You want us to stop laughing at you and give your arguments credit? Then stop making general assumptions and learn your subject matter.

hehehehe .. I missed that comment all-together .. I was so incredibly *what's the right word* ... dumbfounded that basic containment issues could escape anyone with even a high school education ...

 

[PT]

And on another point, to assume that by the 1940s we only had "spears and maybe a couple of Muskets" is wrong. You want us to stop laughing at you and give your arguments credit? Then stop making general assumptions and learn your subject matter.

hehehehe .. I missed that comment all-together .. I was so incredibly *what's the right word* ... dumbfounded that basic containment issues could escape anyone with even a high school education ...

I would just like to point out that I in no way influenced, contributed to, or approve of the original statement contained herein.

 

[unclehobart]

Geez.. I havent read this in a long time. So much bloodshed and going far afield the original premise. The bottom line is that there are only 49 states in America. America being a rather gangly mass of snow, desert, and rocks that go from the arctic cirlce in Canada all the way to Tiera del Fuego in Chile. The lower 48 are in America ... Alaska is in America as well.. just tucked off on Canadas left flank. Hawaii is out a good 1700 miles past the continental shelf. Its an island chain.

 

[nalani]

And on another point, to assume that by the 1940s we only had "spears and maybe a couple of Muskets" is wrong. You want us to stop laughing at you and give your arguments credit? Then stop making general assumptions and learn your subject matter.

hehehehe .. I missed that comment all-together .. I was so incredibly *what's the right word* ... dumbfounded that basic containment issues could escape anyone with even a high school education ...

I would just like to point out that I in no way influenced, contributed to, or approve of the original statement contained herein.

umm... absophreakinglutely ...

 

[PT]

My comment involved a cave and a few drums, nothing about spears or muskets, just don't want to be involved in the blame, that's all.

 

[nalani]

hehehehe ... ahhh ...

 

[freako104]

My Lai , No Gun Ri, Agent Orange... the list is endless. All countries have skeletons in their closet.

yes but the US has some that they know people know about and dont seem to care. they dont seem to give a damn that people hate them supporting polpot. it is a superpower and seems to be enjoying that title.

 

[ol' man]

STOP LAUGHING?

@ your stupidity.

OMG, did i just read your post right? You do know that the Japanese BOMBED Hawaii because of the US presence in our land, don't you?

I would much rather yell than to run off giggeling like a little girl calling someone "STUPID." Pretty immature there toots. Shows indeed your level of debate/discussion.

Why don't you tell me just how far your technology would have been in 1940 if you would have had no outside influence or contact?

You think it would have been good enough to contend against planes and bombs and such?

At that point and time it would seem indeed you did not need it? Most of the world didn't need it until 1850~1940 for obvious reasons?

 

[nalani]

STOP LAUGHING?

I would much rather yell than to run off giggeling like a little girl calling someone "STUPID." Pretty immature there toots. Shows indeed your level of debate/discussion.

Why don't you tell me just how far your technology would have been in 1940 if you would have had no outside influence or contact?

You think it would have been good enough to contend against planes and bombs and such?

At that point and time it would seem indeed you did not need it? Most of the world didn't need it until 1850~1940 for obvious reasons?

AHA! My professor was right! It is possible to regress mentally and intellectually!

None of your points make sense either logically or factually not withstanding the fact that we never said anything about those issues. What you're doing is taking an apple and attempting, very badly, to compare it to a banana. And in order to "prove" your points, you regress to prior posts, thereby contradicting yourself. After the initial "rage", neither one of us called you any names including "stupid" ... yet, you continued to yell and act abusively .. under those circumstances, I thought we were being very nice ... I'm not sure why you're doing that, unless it's your attempt to make yourself feel "in the loop" or "in the know" ... but rest assured, I won't call you "stupid" anymore .. . your actions and falicious arguments do that for you just fine.

 

[ol' man]

Okay you want your land back?

Okay you want the US to leave?

Okay then what are you doing about it?

What are you going to school for?

Surely someone with your plethora of infinite wisdom is going to school to be a Lawyer?

Surely with your deep rooted hatred for anything US would propel your determination to actually make a difference since you are so downtrodden?

So far I have been the only one to have done some searching for any information regarding the sensless acts that happend there in Hawaii years ago.

You two have hardly lifted a finger to give some links to some info to as educate a "STUPID, MENTALLY AND INTELLECTUALLY REGRESSED" as you say, gringo such as my self.

If I was so dedicated to the cause I would have my own personal website for it or at least have a bunch of links in my favorites. Maybe you forgot how to cut and paste?

Personally you seem like one of those couch potato protestors. Sitting around bitching about the white man but never get off your ass to do a thing about it.

Here I found some links for ya. I thought you said they did not help you through school?

http://members.aol.com/luke214/ksbe/ksbefa3.html

http://www.kauaicc.hawaii.edu/admissions/fa/nhvep02.html

I found tuition wavers at the above link!

NATIVE HAWAIIAN VOCED PROGRAM
Financial Aid Information Flyer
Students are encouraged to:

have verification of Hawaiian ancestry available

complete a Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA)

contact the Financial Aid Office of the college/university for forms particular to that campus

contact the Financial Aid Office of the college/university for other scholarship information
HEYUM ENDOWMENT FUND
Center for Pacific Island Studies
1890 East West Road, Moore 215
Honolulu, HI 96822
Contact: (808) 956-7700
Applicants must be indigenous to the island of Melanesia, Micronesia or Polynesia, enrolled at a campus of the University of Hawaii. Students enrolled in non-credit education and/or training programs may also be considered for assistance. Applicant's academic performance, potential to make a contribution to their country of origin, and need will be considered.

KAMEHAMEHA SCHOOLS ALUMNI ASSOCIATION, Kauai Region

PILI LA'AU SCHOLARSHIP
2970 Haleko Rd., 101
Lihue, HI 96766
Deadline: APRIL 15
Contact: (808) 245-8214
Kauai graduating senior or Kauai resident
Hawaiian or part-Hawaiian
Kauai graduating senior - minimum GPA 2.8 (grades 9-12)
demonstrate academic potential and progress
Enroll full-time in an accredited post-high program conducted by a recognized Hawaiian cultural authority.

KAMEHAMEHA SCHOOLS BISHOP ESTATE

1877 Makuakane St.
Honolulu, HI 96817
Deadline: MARCH 1
Contact: (808) 842-8216 or
Neighbor Islands(800) 842-IMUA ext 216
KSBE administers various scholarships including the Office for Hawaiian Affairs Scholarship and the Hawaiian Homes Commission Scholarship for students pursuing post high school education.


KUA'ANA, UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII AT MANOA

2600 Campus Road, 207
Honolulu, HI 96822
Contact: (808) 956-5945
Tuition waivers for Hawaiian and part-Hawaiian students at UH Manoa.

LAMAKU, 'AHA PUNANA LEO

1744 Kino'ole Street
Hilo, HI 96720
Deadline: APRIL 14
Contact: (808) 966-6246 or email
Applicants must be of Hawaiian ancestry enrolled in an accredited program support the survival of the Hawaiian language through education be prepared to work in the community in the semester of the award using the Hawaiian language demonstrate financial need and have a cumulative grade point average (GPA) of 2.0.

THE NATIVE HAWAIIAN LEADERSHIP PROJECT
UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII AT MANOA

College of Business Administration
2404 Maile Way, BUSAD A405
Honolulu, HI 96822
Contact: (808) 956-7258
Scholarships for part-time and full-time degree seeking Native Hawaiian students.

Last time I checked scholarships meant FREE money!

Never have I saw a tuition waver in the states for being natively a WHITE boy.

 

[kuulani]

I lono ae na akua a pau o keia honua nei, i lono ae ko'u mau kupuna, i lono ae na poe a pau, e ho aku ma luna ou, ma luna o kau poe keiki, keia eha o makou, i ike oe i ka makou pilikia a ike aela i ka paio a hakaka o ke kanaka iki i ke kanaka nui.

If you had read greenie's link, or the link mitch posted, you would see what we endorsed and said on the subject. I do believe nalani mentioned that if anyone wanted to further educate themselves on our plight, to read the books mentioned in the bibliography of mitch's link.

Couch potato protesters? No. We have gone on many vigils, we have have been fighting our cause in D.C. since 1893 to the present, we have appealed to everyone and anyone who would listen. There have been numerous bills and proposals to the government on Hawaiian sovereignty. Don't assume to know what we do.

If you read carefully what nalani wrote, she did not say they do not help us with schooling, she said "you can apply for a Native Hawaiian tuition waiver in schools within the UH system but it is based on financial need and they can only service so many people." And as everyone knows, these people offering scholarships are great, but how much help do they really give. I should know, I applied every single year for scholarships, for my Bachelors degree and Masters degree ... how much help did I get? Did not getting help stop me? No. I went on, got loans, am in debt to banks forever, and am now educated, and educating my people. You don't think we already knew about those scholarships you listed. You forgot some, by the way.

 

[ol' man]

I lono ae na akua a pau o keia honua nei, i lono ae ko'u mau kupuna, i lono ae na poe a pau, e ho aku ma luna ou, ma luna o kau poe keiki, keia eha o makou, i ike oe i ka makou pilikia a ike aela i ka paio a hakaka o ke kanaka iki i ke kanaka nui.

If you had read greenie's link, or the link mitch posted, you would see what we endorsed and said on the subject. I do believe nalani mentioned that if anyone wanted to further educate themselves on our plight, to read the books mentioned in the bibliography of mitch's link.

Couch potato protesters? No. We have gone on many vigils, we have have been fighting our cause in D.C. since 1893 to the present, we have appealed to everyone and anyone who would listen. There have been numerous bills and proposals to the government on Hawaiian sovereignty. Don't assume to know what we do.

If you read carefully what nalani wrote, she did not say they do not help us with schooling, she said "you can apply for a Native Hawaiian tuition waiver in schools within the UH system but it is based on financial need and they can only service so many people." And as everyone knows, these people offering scholarships are great, but how much help do they really give. I should know, I applied every single year for scholarships, for my Bachelors degree and Masters degree ... how much help did I get? Did not getting help stop me? No. I went on, got loans, am in debt to banks forever, and am now educated, and educating my people. You don't think we already knew about those scholarships you listed. You forgot some, by the way.

I tried mitchshafts links but , DEAD.... Greenies..... WHERE?

I do know you could probably get a tuition waver at my school. Check link.
http://www.ndsu.edu/multicultural/cdtw_app.pdf

In that case no tuition at all. Then since you must be over 24 you would get grants to fill the rest in.

 

[greenfreak]

I hope this thread can turn around and be better than it has been. I certainly don't want it to end the way the first thread did. Here is the start of the subject in that thread. I've said my peace there, and here. If you go this far, thanks for reading.

 

[Jeslek]

This thread is very interesting, but I won't voice an opinion because I'm quite ... uninformed. Gah. Time for more reading...

 

[MitchSchaft]

My 2nd link wasn't dead, ol'man.