Another log for the fire

Gato_Solo said:
Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. You can quote weapons system statistics all you like, but you'll never get it right until you also look at the alternatives.

But you sure have an opinion when it comes to 'excessive force', dontcha? I think I smell a good dose of hypocrisy.
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i don't think i really quoted any statistics. all i did was link to a description of something. big fucking deal.

i'm not sure what issue you're trying to resolve but i don't need to get all fancy-assed about this. my argument isn't complex enough to be hypocritical. it's simple. too much bomb on too little target means a lot of uninvolved dead fuckers.

maybe now we'll review some statistics. lebanese dead outnumber israeli dead by 10 to 1. lebanese civilians dead outweigh hizballah dead by a huge fucking proportion. probably 400 dead civilians in lebanon by now... maybe 20 hizballah guys have bought it... yeah, GO TEAM! hundreds of thousands of refugees, newborn babies dying in lebanese hospitals due to power outages and no life support, blah blah blah.

it's one thing to attack hizballah but to destroy the infrastructure of a country like israel is doing to lebanon is not only wrong, but fucking stupid from the standpoint of regional stability.

that's my opinion.

if you don't like it, that's fine.

but keep your "hypocrisy" crap to yourself, eh?
 
Well was watching CNN and they reported the BBC came out and said that a lot fo the "civilian" casualties they reported where in fact hezbollah.

also as to Innocents.

If you feed the enemy house the enemy and cloth the enemy, you are the enemy.
 
paul_valaru said:
If you feed the enemy house the enemy and cloth the enemy, you are the enemy.
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damned straight...shhhh, let's not drown out the actual Lebanese complaints. There seems to be few of those. They hate Hezbollah worse than the UN does.
 
I believe the proper "log for the fire" song is something like this:

Put another log on the fire
Cook me up some bacon and some beans
Go out to the car and change the tire
Wash my socks and sew my old blue jeans, come on baby
You can fill my pipe and then go fetch my slippers
and boil me up another pot of tea
Then put another log on the fire, babe
and come and tell me why you're leaving me

Now don't I let you wash the car on Sunday?
Don't I warn you when you're getting fat?
Ain't I gonna take you fishing with me someday?
Well a man can't love a woman more than that!

Ain't I always nice to your kid sister?
Don't I take her driving every night?
So sit here at my feet, 'cause I like you when you're sweet
And you know it ain't feminine to fight

So put another log on the fire
Cook me up some bacon and some beans
And go out to the car and lift it up and change the tire
Wash my socks and sew my old blue jeans, come on baby
You can fill my pipe, and then go fetch my slippers
and boil me up another pot of tea
Then put another log on the fire, babe
And come and tell me why you're leaving me.

-Shel Silverstein/Tompall Glaser
 
Gato_Solo said:
I'd like to see some evidence for that, and something more substantial than a UN resolution. Pictures and news sites would be nice.
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I've posted their crimes several times already including UN condemnation and the resolution and Geneva Convention violations. Thye can't be considered to be acting legally by any stretch of the imagination.

Here's an image for you though.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14181.htm
 
spike said:
I've posted their crimes several times already including UN condemnation and the resolution and Geneva Convention violations. Thye can't be considered to be acting legally by any stretch of the imagination.
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They think they are, and that is what matters, as to UN reselutions.

the wording in them states something along the lines of the other guys have to

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;


and that hasn't really happened
 
Resolution 42: The Palestine Question (5 Mar 1948) Requests recommendations for the Palestine Commission
Resolution 43: The Palestine Question (1 Apr 1948) Calls upon Arab and Jewish armed groups to cease acts of violence
Resolution 44: The Palestine Question (1 Apr 1948) Requests convocation of special session of the General Assembly
Resolution 46: The Palestine Question (17 Apr 1948)
Resolution 48: The Palestine Question (23 Apr 1948)
Resolution 49: The Palestine Question (22 May 1948)
Resolution 50: The Palestine Question (29 May 1948)
Resolution 53: The Palestine Question (7 Jul 1948)
Resolution 54: The Palestine Question (15 Jul 1948)
Resolution 56: The Palestine Question (19 Aug 1948)
Resolution 57: The Palestine Question (18 Sep 1948)
Resolution 59: The Palestine Question (19 Oct 1948)
Resolution 60: The Palestine Question (29 Oct 1948)
Resolution 61: The Palestine Question (4 Nov 1948)
Resolution 62: The Palestine Question (16 Nov 1948)
Resolution 66: The Palestine Question (29 Dec 1948)
Resolution 72: The Palestine Question (11 Aug 1949)
Resolution 73: The Palestine Question (11 Aug 1949)
Resolution 89 (November 17, 1950): regarding Armistice in 1948 Arab-Israeli War and "transfer of persons".
Resolution 92: The Palestine Question (8 May 1951)
Resolution 93: The Palestine Question (18 May 1951)
Resolution 95: The Palestine Question (1 Sep 1951)
Resolution 100: The Palestine Question (27 Oct 1953)
Resolution 101: The Palestine Question (24 Nov 1953)
Resolution 106: The Palestine Question (29 Mar 1955) 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid.
Resolution 107: The Palestine Question (30 Mar)
Resolution 108: The Palestine Question (8 Sep)
Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
Resolution 242 (November 22, 1967): Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area. Calls on Israel's neighbors to end the state of belligerency and calls upon Israel to reciprocate by withdraw its forces from land claimed by other parties in 1967 war. Interpreted commonly today as calling for the Land for peace principle as a way to resolve Arab-Israeli conflict
Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
Resolution 338 (October 22, 1973): cease fire in Yom Kippur War
Resolution 339 (October 23, 1973): Confirms Res. 338, dispatch UN observers.
Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
Resolution 425 (1978): 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon". Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was completed as of June 16, 2000.
Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
Resolution 446 (1979): 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".. Israeli settlements in the occupied territories thus declared illegal.
Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians".
Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
Resolution 478 (August 20, 1980): 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'.
Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors".
Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility".
Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith".
Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in".
Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return
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a lsit oh UN resalutions, mostly "condems" in them
 
paul_valaru said:
a lsit oh UN resalutions, mostly "condems" in them
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Yep.

"The U.N. has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined, including Iraq."
 
2minkey said:
i don't think i really quoted any statistics. all i did was link to a description of something. big fucking deal.
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Yes, it is a big 'fucking' deal when you base your argument about excessive force on that description. You quoted weapons statistics (description), and I called you on it.

2minkey said:
i'm not sure what issue you're trying to resolve but i don't need to get all fancy-assed about this. my argument isn't complex enough to be hypocritical. it's simple. too much bomb on too little target means a lot of uninvolved dead fuckers.
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1. So when I respond with a simplistic analysis I'm ignoring something, but when you respond with a simplistic view, it's okay? :bs:
2. How is it too much bomb on too little target? You haven't explained that at all. You merely stated a viewpoint. You don't know what other weapons they had, nor do you know what the effect of those weapons is. Before you spout off a list of weapons they bought, you'd better take a peek at which systems they had available for that weapons platform. It may well be that the durandel was the only weapon usable for that mission.
3. Israeli soldiers have been reported asking civilians (innocents) to leave areas before a bombing run or an artillery barrage.

2minkey said:
maybe now we'll review some statistics. lebanese dead outnumber israeli dead by 10 to 1. lebanese civilians dead outweigh hizballah dead by a huge fucking proportion. probably 400 dead civilians in lebanon by now... maybe 20 hizballah guys have bought it... yeah, GO TEAM! hundreds of thousands of refugees, newborn babies dying in lebanese hospitals due to power outages and no life support, blah blah blah.
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And who's statistics are those? I'd like to see the source. I'd also like to point out that its a war. How many 'civilians' died during WWII...and don't forget the Dresden raid, either...

2minkey said:
it's one thing to attack hizballah but to destroy the infrastructure of a country like israel is doing to lebanon is not only wrong, but fucking stupid from the standpoint of regional stability.

that's my opinion.
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So...aiding and abetting is not a criminal act?

Still smells like hypocrisy to me...
 
spike said:
Yep.

"The U.N. has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined, including Iraq."
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New tactic.

The UN hates Israel. We can agree on that. However, the UN created Israel & refuses to protect her from her enemies. What should the UN do to end hostilities towards Israel from her neighboring Arab aggressors?
 
Gonz said:
The UN hates Israel. We can agree on that. However, the UN created Israel & refuses to protect her from her enemies. What should the UN do to end hostilities towards Israel from her neighboring Arab aggressors?
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Nah UN hates non-passive jews....ok a bit to far there.

I think the UN doesn't hate Israel, I think it is upset that it's early plans did not end up as instant peace as planned.

I also think US involvment with Israel is detrimental to Israels postion with the UN, the UN and US have a hate on for each other. (not that US involvment with Israel is bad, I freely admit without US support Israel would not exist today, and you KNOW that is hard for me to say).

I do beleive that the UN might act the same way with any country, but would also act against the other countries equally.
 
By the by
Rush sez the Israelis should kick the ever luvin' crap out of them!

Can't agree more!

The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

Nuthin' that dropping a shitload of ordnance on them wouldn't cure.
 
Gonz said:
New tactic.

The UN hates Israel. We can agree on that. However, the UN created Israel & refuses to protect her from her enemies. What should the UN do to end hostilities towards Israel from her neighboring Arab aggressors?
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You keep putting this in one side terms. The UN doesn't hate Israel they speak up when Israel acts like a criminal. Both sides need to protect themselbes from the aggressors on the other side.
 
There's nothing criminal about either side protecting themselves. What is criminal is when they break the law.

If Iraq actually had WMDs what would have been criminal about them claiming they were "protecting themselves"?
 
Iraq had WMDs.

what would have been criminal about them claiming they were "protecting themselves?
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He signed a surrender order which barred him from possessing them. I bet you're excited to see Iran & NK developing nukes.
 
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