Another log for the fire

Gonz said:
You are aware Hezbollah is shelling Israel (has been for decades) from private residences (houses), not from bases, aren't you? They are terrorists & if Lebanon will not live up to its cease fire agreement then Israel has only one choice. Do it themselvs.
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like I said dood, the reaction in this case should be military.

and like i said, it ain't the simple good guy bad guy situation that you and others have made it out to be.
 
Cerise said:
Israel is defending themselves against the terrorists who want to eliminate them from planet Earth. Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar declared on Palestinian TV, “We do not recognize the Israeli enemy, nor his right to be our neighbor, nor to stay (on the land), nor his ownership of any inch of land. . . . We are interested in restoring our full rights to return all the people of Palestine to the land of Palestine. Our principles are clear: Palestine is a land of Waqf (Islamic trust), which can not be given up.” Sounds like fightin' words to me. Israel's response to Hamas' terrorist attacks will have made the world a safer place.
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and Palestinians are defending themselves from Israeli terrorists who have uttered many fightin' words as well.

"Criminal behavior is attacking Israeli civilian targets."

Looked up crime for you->
"An act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it"

Which Israel does more than any other nation. That would make them guilty of criminal behavior.

Ill-will? Nooooo, not the ill-will. :rolleyes:

Oh sorry, thought you were interested in the best interests of american's. The best interests which could be served by not wasting taxpayer money funding criminals and creating bigger a bigger threat to american lives.
 
spike said:
and Palestinians are defending themselves from Israeli terrorists who have uttered many fightin' words as well..
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Do you think that Americans in the United States military are terrorists?
 
Gonz said:
Do you think that Americans in the United States military are terrorists?
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is violence legitimate when committed by a state, and other violence committed without the sanction of a state is terrorism? is it really that simple. because that seems to be what you're trying to say.

so it's cool, then, for russians to raze entire viallges in chechnya, or how about when hafez al assad piped poison gas through the sewer system of an entire village. that was cool. not terrorist. done by the leaders of the states.

oh, wait, now it seems to depend on WHICH state is doing the violence. so when it's us, or israel, it's cool. if it's not....

tell me gonz, has israel EVER made a mistake? why do you idealize israel so intensely?

is there some reason you feel such a compelling connection to israel? other than you visited there once. because I'm not that enthused about guelph, ontario.
 
I had to try out the "reputation" thing on that post 2minkey.

Terrorism is using violence, terror, and intimidation to achieve a result. Lot's of countries are guilty of terrorism.
 
2minkey said:
so it's cool, then, for russians to raze entire viallges in chechnya, or how about when hafez al assad piped poison gas through the sewer system of an entire village. that was cool. not terrorist. done by the leaders of the states.
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Acts of War & where was the intended responders? (UN)

minkey said:
tell me gonz, has israel EVER made a mistake? why do you idealize israel so intensely?

is there some reason you feel such a compelling connection to israel? other than you visited there once. because I'm not that enthused about guelph, ontario.
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Because they have the same ideals as we do. Similarly, since they are successful & equitable, they are a target...much like us.

I'm still awaiting the long list of offensive wars started by the Zionist terror machine. Keep your eye on the media - they're gonna humanize Hezbollah & Hamas while simultaneously demonizing Israel (again). The Jews weren't killed in the forties & the world won't rest until the job is done.
 
long list of zionist terror wars?

um, no dude.

1982 was a BIG compromise of ideals because up until then israel had fought heroic, defensive, against-the-odds fights that were clearly justifiable. in 1982 the assassination of a puppet and an occasional rocket that did next to nothing was used to justify an offensive war. big change.

that action also directly influenced the radicalization of shi'a in the south of lebanon.

there's probably a reason why THOUSANDS of palestinians were allowed to come to the US under special immigration rules. because they were getting fucked with, BIG TIME, by our middle-eastern buddy, and somebody felt guilty about that. (just like we let a shitload of chaldeans from norther iraq come here when we were SUPPORTING our buddy saddam, who beat the shit outta 'em.) explain that one, idealist.
 
has israel EVER made a mistake?
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of course, just like everyone else. and no the mistake was NOT not killing all the palestinians.

Some were/are

having religious courts holding sway over certain aspects of civil life, such as marriage, and religious courts include christian courts and muslim courts. This has lead to people NEEDING the religious courts, and has led to fanatism.

One thing you guys dont' realize is there are palestinians and then there are Arab/Israelis arabs perfectly happy to live in Israel, happy with the Goverment (well as happy as one can be with a goverment) they even have policital parties that are a influential part of the Knesset.
 
Dang Minky you might be coming out of that liberal haze
that all those years of indoctrination put you in?

yeah reel simple

if the good guys dump a shitload of ordnance
on the bad guys equals good

now mebbe one day you'll come to terms with the
good guy, bad guy issue...


er mebbe not...
 
paul_valaru said:
how about the less bad guys?
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Nope, not really.

Both sides have understandable positions. Both sides do horrible things.

It could be said that the British were responsible to some extent for the situation.

It is a very complicated history. Here is a fairly neutral explanation:
http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

True peace come from understanding of both sides of an issue in order to come to a suitable compromise. Never from sweeping generalizations and knee-jerk reactions.
 
2minkey said:
bullshit.

when israel dumps a shitload of ordnance into a tightly packed urban area, you're going to tell me that's akin to brake failure? that leveling a bunch of buildings is "unintentional?" right... is ANY consequence that is so obviously forseeable "unintentional?"
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So...

1. If Hamas opens up an office building, and you work there for them, you are innocent when the building blows up? :rofl4:
2. When ordnance is dropped there are always unintentional consequences. The term for that in warfare is called "collateral damage". According to the Geneva Convention, which Hezbollah does not adhere to, BTW, they made their building a legal military target the second they crossed into Israeli territory and kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

In other words...it doesn't mean shit whether civilians die if they are in the way of a legal military target. They weren't deliberately targeted, but that's just the way it goes.

2minkey said:
yes, there is a difference between intentional and unintentional.

in this case, that distinction utterly fails.

go ahead. find someone you don't like. blow up the building where they work. then try to tell the cops that everybody else that died in the building was an uintentional consequence.
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If that building houses a legal military target, too bad. You're trying to apply civilian law to the military, and it doesn't work. If you're young enough, I suggest a 4-year enlistment in the Armed Forces to give you an inkling of what I'm talking about.
 
You know, Hezbollah (and Hamas) targets and kills innocent Israeli citizens. Yet when Israel targets a Hezbollah outpost and some civilians are killed in the attack, this is of course outrageous and they should clearly be punished.

I don't get it. :shrug:
 
Gato_Solo said:
According to the Geneva Convention, which Hezbollah does not adhere to, BTW,
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You're using the Geneva Convention which Israel does not adhere to:

"There are 149 substantive articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that protect the rights of every one of these Palestinians living in occupied Palestine. The Israeli Government is currently violating, and has since 1967 been violating, almost each and every one of these sacred rights of the Palestinian People recognized by the Fourth Geneva Convention. Indeed, violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention are war crimes."
 
spike said:
You're using the Geneva Convention which Israel does not adhere to:

"There are 149 substantive articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that protect the rights of every one of these Palestinians living in occupied Palestine. The Israeli Government is currently violating, and has since 1967 been violating, almost each and every one of these sacred rights of the Palestinian People recognized by the Fourth Geneva Convention. Indeed, violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention are war crimes."
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Source please, Spike. Link if you have it. We don't want to get shut down for copyright infringement.
 
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