Biden v Palin Debate: Debate

Okay... seems the debate started without me..on the "It's Biden" thread.

I must admit that I didn't watch the debate...I was watching (listening to) the Canadian English debate which they put on the same date/time.

Most of the morning, I've been hearing commentary about the debate, but I'd like some comments from people who watched it.

The commentary that I've heard this morning went something like this:

Palin: Many people expected her to lead with both feet..in her mouth, and she dissapointed them. She kept her calm, stayed on topic (mostly), and didn't step on any cow-patties.

Biden: People expected him to step on his tongue a few times as well, and were also dissapointed. He managed to stay on topic, and not sound patronizing.

Neither scored any knock-out blows, but although Palin surpassed expectations on her debate style, Biden still won the debate - whether that was by a fair margin or not is debateable.

Talking points, anyone?
 
they both seemed to do well scaled to relative expectations.

palin didn't seem to really say anything that seemed insightful or indicative of mature thinking on matters political, but she didn't make any serious blunders either. she repeated the buzz phrases that she should have to appeal to her audience. the winking at the camera was a bit much though.

biden seemed far more mature in his views and depth of knowledge (as he should) and didn't come off as an arrogant cock, which is a real achievement for him.
 
MrBishop said:
She kept her calm, stayed on topic (mostly), and didn't step on any cow-patties.
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Not so much. She completely ignored a bunch of questions and just seemed to recite some prepared answer for something else. You asked about Afghanistan? I'll talk about energy. Darfur? Energy.

Seem like this was the plan she went in with. Since the Couric interview made her look so silly instead of answering with "i'll get back to you on that" or any of the problematic type od answers she gave in that interview her team decided it was best just to change the topic immediately.

She had to tell the moderator "i'm not going to answer questions the way you want me to".
 
Someone made a fairly accurate flow chart:

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JOE BIDEN’S 14 DEBATE LIES

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan
 
The Barracuda Bites Back


Palin did well in last night's debate. It is because of three things. One is that the scrutiny of moderator Gwen Ifill's ethics forced her to blunt any harder questions. I'd be curious to see what got scrapped. Two is that Joe Biden had to be careful what he said to a woman. He handled that well. Third is most important: expectations were low, thanks to a condescending Charlie Gibson interview, and most definitely thanks to a condescending Katie Couric interview. This last is most interesting, because it points to a larger failure of Couric and other reporters to "get the story." So Katie Couric deserves gratitude for allowing her own airs to win a debate for the GOP. More on that in a moment.
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If you aim low and exceed your expectations, it doesn't make you a winner.

Biden had to be nice to her, so he went easy on her and attacked McCain directly instead.
 
It appears Joe used cosmetic tape to provide an "instant eyelift" perker-upper, ala "Botox" Kerry:



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Cerise said:
Focus group predicts a big shift in the polls next week as undecided voters swing towards Palin:
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Nope, sorry to break it to you Cerise polls are showing independents and undecideds thought Biden won.

The vice presidential face-off between Republican Sarah Palin and Democrat Joe Biden will be dissected by political observers for days, but to one group of independent voters who were scrutinizing their responses, this much was instantly clear: Biden won the debate.

That was the finding from a survey of 1,200-plus voters nationwide who were paid to electronically rate which candidate better answered each question and performed best overall.

The study, conducted by New Jersey-based HCD Research with the help of Muhlenberg College's Institute of Public Opinion in Allentown, gave an immediate but unscientific glimpse into how the candidates fared among self-described Republicans, Democrats and independents.

While the vast majority of partisan voters said their candidate won the debate -- 80 percent of Republicans picked Palin, 89 percent of Democrats chose Biden -- 69 percent of independents sided with Biden.

''When independents rated which candidate's answers they liked better, they liked Biden,''
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http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_5poll.6614527oct03,0,4318398.story

in each category, independent voters went heavily for Joe Biden. In each of the issues polled, Biden did not poll any lower than 62% in his responses at the debate. By these numbers, although Biden and Palin performed well with their bases, it was Biden who won over the most independents and undecided voters.
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http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1081499/who_won_the_vp_debate_early_polls_lean.html
 
MrBishop said:
If you aim low and exceed your expectations, it doesn't make you a winner.
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The mainstream media, with artful edits, can take the credit for the low expectations. How much of her interviews with Gibson/Couric was left on the cutting room floor? They don't want her to look good, but media didn't have a say this time, as this debate was a live forum. :shrug:

Biden had to be nice to her, so he went easy on her and attacked McCain directly instead.
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Is that why was Biden nodding in agreement at her answers and flashing her a big, creepy, smile at every opportunity?
 
spike said:
Nope, sorry to break it to you Cerise polls are showing independents and undecideds thought Biden won.
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:rofl:

.....paid to electronically rate which candidate better answered each question
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The participants in the survey view a video of the popular or controversial event and move their mouse back and forth on a scale which for example may indicate the participant’s believability or agreement with the video. The responses are compiled and curves are created so that you can see when people agree/disagree or believe/disbelieve what is being said in the video.
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Cerise said:
The mainstream media, with artful edits, can take the credit for the low expectations. How much of her interviews with Gibson/Couric was left on the cutting room floor?
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Sure, that was the problem. It wasn't that she was a complete mess and couldn't get away with not answering questions like in the debate. :laugh:

Is that why was Biden nodding in agreement at her answers and flashing her a big, creepy, smile at every opportunity?
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Actually he was sighing at her answers /facepalm and correcting her. She was the one with the big creepy smile *wink* *wink* gosh darnit.
 
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