from a Muslims POV
- Thread starter freako104
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MrBishop
Well-Known Member
DOn't forget about the Jews and the gays.catocom said:
HL - they're a 'Christian' organization, using the Bible to defend their actions against non-Christians, and non-whites in particular. It was dirty pool for me to play the KKK here though. Please ignore it.
The point is that you can, as a religious person, either join a group, dissasociate yourself from it, or go to war against it.
The former doesn't happen as often as some would let you believe. The latter causes a rift in a religion which is tough to deal with (The Anglicans are seeing it on a large scale thanks to the same-sex blessed union debate, as they did with the ordained female priests thing)...the middle option often means not talking about it either way. We're not like them! It's more of an internal dissasociation, I'd guess.
Freedom of speach, especially when it comes to religious topics, aren't as supported in Muslim countries. You're not as likely to see crowds denouncing Muslim extremists in teh Middle-East any more than you would see anti-communistic ralleys in China.
catocom
Well-Known Member
chcr said:Sorry, cat. Think for a moment about what they burn in your yard if you're "undesirable."They're all about religion. I absolutely classify them with the muslim terrorists.
All I know is 'now' the group(s) around here don't give a shit about religion.
If your black, hispanic... it makes no difference if you are Christain or Muslim,
your on the list.
I think that's the key there. There won't be many speak out against them over there. I will disagree with freako on the christians though, it's true that the catholics don't speak out against the fundies as much as they should, but it does happen. When a fundie kills a dr. it is spoken out against. However, there are Muslims speaking out against the muslim fundies as well.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131580,00.html
http://www.detnews.com/2004/editorial/0409/20/a11-275949.htm
http://nhpr.org/view_content/1673/
Ok, so it is there, there are muslims that are and have been speaking out about the horrible things that the extremists have done. I think the big thing here is whether we choose to listen to them, or whether we choose to dismiss them as being just another towelhead.
catocom
Well-Known Member
I agree PT.
I think what one of the main problems is, is places like Saudi Arabia having
a record of saying one thing, but believing/doing another, makes it too
easy to dismiss it when they denounce it. Part of that too could b the way
that most of the media lays it out too.
I think what one of the main problems is, is places like Saudi Arabia having
a record of saying one thing, but believing/doing another, makes it too
easy to dismiss it when they denounce it. Part of that too could b the way
that most of the media lays it out too.
HomeLAN
New Member
The Fox story is about the only one I've seen. Every time an abortion doc got waxed, I saw about 4 articles touting christian denunciation. I'm not at all sure there's any real comparison to be drawn between the two levels of response, Puter.
I'll tell you this, though. I hear a shitload about how muslims have been more and more victimized and fearful for their safety since 9/11. In fact, it's damn near all I hear. Not that that's at all acceptable, but perhaps some more loud criticisms of your more extreme brethren might help solve that problem?
I'll tell you this, though. I hear a shitload about how muslims have been more and more victimized and fearful for their safety since 9/11. In fact, it's damn near all I hear. Not that that's at all acceptable, but perhaps some more loud criticisms of your more extreme brethren might help solve that problem?
I think that's the entire basis of the last article. There are Muslims out there that would denounce, but are fearful of even admitting they are muslim. I don't know if I understand that or not. I do understand fear, and I do understand there were problems after 9/11. We are not a country that has eliminated hatred or bigotry. My own sister-in-law, who is Indian and Hindu was told a few times to "Go back home" yet she was born and raised here in Missouri.
As for the comparison between the two levels of response, I think it is relevant to compare them. http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm There are two sides to every story.
As for the comparison between the two levels of response, I think it is relevant to compare them. http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm There are two sides to every story.
HomeLAN
New Member
Oh, I'll agree that the shit going on at abortion clinics can be compared to muslim terrorism. I just don;t think you can compare the following reactions.
Mainstream christians seem to generally come out of the woodwork to condemn violence at abortion clinics, while mainstream muslims seem to generally either STFU, or say something along the lines of they fear an anti-muslim backlash. Again, that Fox article is about the only departure from that that I have seen.
I have a problem with that.
Mainstream christians seem to generally come out of the woodwork to condemn violence at abortion clinics, while mainstream muslims seem to generally either STFU, or say something along the lines of they fear an anti-muslim backlash. Again, that Fox article is about the only departure from that that I have seen.
I have a problem with that.
True enough. I do understand the fear of backlash though. It's certainly a stronger fear than fear of an anti-abortionist. Not only do they have the fear from the terrorists, but from the majority of the US population, who may or may not associate them with the terrorists.
I don't disagree entirely though, there should be more speaking out. I'm sure if I went digging some more I could find more, but I guess that's the point. There are cases of them speaking out, but it's not as much of a story for the press either.
I don't disagree entirely though, there should be more speaking out. I'm sure if I went digging some more I could find more, but I guess that's the point. There are cases of them speaking out, but it's not as much of a story for the press either.
RDX
Member
I'm curious what you are trying to say? Are people intolerant? Yes. Does that carry over into violence? That depends. Being told to "go back home" certainly is rude and not called for, but compared to the restrictions that are placed on non-Islamic people in Islamic nations, her problem amounts to very little.
I still don't know what you are trying to convey with the graph. That anti-arbortionists and therefore Christians (since anti-abortionists = Christian) are violent.
Is the level of violence brought fourth by Islamic extremists even remotely similar to the level of violence created by anti-abortionists? Since 1977, there have been 7 murders committed by anti-abortionists. No matter how small the figure, it is not nice. But is it even worth the comparison?
I still don't know what you are trying to convey with the graph. That anti-arbortionists and therefore Christians (since anti-abortionists = Christian) are violent.
Is the level of violence brought fourth by Islamic extremists even remotely similar to the level of violence created by anti-abortionists? Since 1977, there have been 7 murders committed by anti-abortionists. No matter how small the figure, it is not nice. But is it even worth the comparison?
chcr
Too cute for words
catocom said:
It didn't make any difference before. White, anglo-saxon protestants. No others need apply. Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Gays, Hispanics, etc., etc., etc... They believe that if you belong to any group they don't approve of, your not really "christian." After all, god wants us to be racially pure, white and intolerant. Talk to them sometime. They don't care what religion you are, but they care very much about their religion.
RDX
Member
What are you basing this off of? You cannot expect a religious person to support an ideal that is clearly in violation of his relgion. I believe that most religions could care less about racial boundaries. FYI, there are more Christians in Africa than there are in North America. The same also goes for Asia and South America. Most Christians are NOT white.
As far as tolerance goes. A person should respect another person's beliefs, but they are not required to engage in those beliefs in order to be tolerant.
Thulsa Doom
New Member
Am I the only one who thinks we are chucking apples and oranges at each other here? If you put north america slap dab into the mideast would we react in the same exact way to things as we do now? or would there be CHRISTIAN bombings and CHRISTIAN extremism more prevelant in a culture that doesnt do as good a job of sublimating such reactionism? or are certain people here saying that the very nature of christianity AND civil white resource rich westernism will always be a higher more humane level of existence then the middle eastern muslimism we see in 30 second news snipits on fox and CNN?