flurffmeister
Member
Nah, he'd just wank on all the threads.
G'bye...
- Thread starter Ardsgaine
- Start date
greenfreak
New Member
samcurry said:
I didn't want to cause ris to have to be defended, I really hope he and everyone else don't take it that way.
samcurry said:
And it's obvious that the people who post there can't be trusted not to insult, to troll, to poke and prod others to get a rise out of them. I'm glad you added another mod.
But I think it needs more.Now, do we have any mediators on staff to get all these people back here to work out our differences?
nalani
Well-Known Member
Seeing as how I stay out of the RW because of all the unnecessary heightened emotions it tends to cause, I had no idea any of this was happening. I could sit back and let it all flow, but I feel compelled to say something. Some may say it's none of my business, but seeing as how we are all members here and these posts were made publicly and effects us all, I do believe it is all of our business. I have a feeling this post may be long, but I would beg that it be read as I wouldn't bother to post anything regarding this topic lest I felt it was important.
First, I would just like to point out that I am neither pro-capitalism nor pro-socialism. I not pro-welfare nor am I anti-welfare. There are just as many reasons, I feel, that welfare should be abolished as there are reasons to keep it going.
I enjoyed reading Ards' first post - it was inciteful, intelligent, and well-written. I too, did not think it was a matter of debate - I felt it was more an incite into his views for our benefit. To be honest, I don't see where the need to debate came from or why it became necessary to involve personal feelings and/or familial choices. I also don't see where Les statement was a matter of debate. She too, was merely stating her view point on the subject, using her life as a means to make others familiar with why she feels the way she does.
I know what Les is going through. It's one of the most crappy feelings in the world to find that the person you've shared a life with is not the person you thought he was - and that you're worse off financially at this moment of realization than you ever were. I was there - and it is not a great place to be. In debt in the tens of thousands merely because being married to him made me responsible by default. My family helped as much as they possibly could - they always do. That's one of the great things about having a large family. But there came a time when I realized that I could not feed my children with my pride. I went to the local welfare office, filled out an application, and received food stamps. Shopping with those things was one of the most degrading periods of my life - but I did it for my children. I had to put aside my preconceived ideas about people on welfare, and suck it up in order to feed them. I was on public assistance for 3 months and have not gone back to that office again. Prior to this experience, I was so tired of seeing "welfare families" who had more than I, though I worked twice as hard. I have, since that time, become acquainted with those who, like myself, took the help and moved on. They are few and far between, but they do exist. I am grateful that that help was available to myself and my children - and even more thankful that I had the kind of values instilled in me that enabled me to see that it was indeed "help", and not a way in which to live my life. Were I not afforded this experience, I dare say I would still be completely prejudiced against the welfare system and those who reap the benefits.
What I'm trying to say is that when it comes to taking care of your children, there is no shame and no blame in putting aside a little bit of pride and prejudice while you get yourself together. Les - I don't think you're weak at all. I think you're a great woman - a great mom and a great friend who deserves much more than you've been dealt. And it comes, hun - I promise. After all the crap, there is nothing left but good.
Making that thread a debate over people - real people who frequent this forum - and the way they choose to care for their families wasn't cool at all. We all do what we can for the health and welfare of our families, the best way we know how. Sitting on the side and judging is one thing. Pointing the finger and making others feel even more worthless than scum is another. We've all done that from time to time here, but for some reason, this was so hurtful - even to me, and I wasn't even involved in the thread. More hurtful than I thought most of us had the ability to be.
Ards, I understand your feeling of having to leave this site. I do, however, wish you would reconsider, but I will support whatever decision you feel is necessary for yourself and for Jan. I, myself, have left a forum or two because of the clashing of minds.
Many friendships have been made here - apologies are small, but small steps are sometimes necessary in order to make things right. I apologize if I offend anyone here, but I honestly feel these things needed to be said.
You are now returned to your regularly scheduled program.
First, I would just like to point out that I am neither pro-capitalism nor pro-socialism. I not pro-welfare nor am I anti-welfare. There are just as many reasons, I feel, that welfare should be abolished as there are reasons to keep it going.
I enjoyed reading Ards' first post - it was inciteful, intelligent, and well-written. I too, did not think it was a matter of debate - I felt it was more an incite into his views for our benefit. To be honest, I don't see where the need to debate came from or why it became necessary to involve personal feelings and/or familial choices. I also don't see where Les statement was a matter of debate. She too, was merely stating her view point on the subject, using her life as a means to make others familiar with why she feels the way she does.
I know what Les is going through. It's one of the most crappy feelings in the world to find that the person you've shared a life with is not the person you thought he was - and that you're worse off financially at this moment of realization than you ever were. I was there - and it is not a great place to be. In debt in the tens of thousands merely because being married to him made me responsible by default. My family helped as much as they possibly could - they always do. That's one of the great things about having a large family. But there came a time when I realized that I could not feed my children with my pride. I went to the local welfare office, filled out an application, and received food stamps. Shopping with those things was one of the most degrading periods of my life - but I did it for my children. I had to put aside my preconceived ideas about people on welfare, and suck it up in order to feed them. I was on public assistance for 3 months and have not gone back to that office again. Prior to this experience, I was so tired of seeing "welfare families" who had more than I, though I worked twice as hard. I have, since that time, become acquainted with those who, like myself, took the help and moved on. They are few and far between, but they do exist. I am grateful that that help was available to myself and my children - and even more thankful that I had the kind of values instilled in me that enabled me to see that it was indeed "help", and not a way in which to live my life. Were I not afforded this experience, I dare say I would still be completely prejudiced against the welfare system and those who reap the benefits.
What I'm trying to say is that when it comes to taking care of your children, there is no shame and no blame in putting aside a little bit of pride and prejudice while you get yourself together. Les - I don't think you're weak at all. I think you're a great woman - a great mom and a great friend who deserves much more than you've been dealt. And it comes, hun - I promise. After all the crap, there is nothing left but good.
Making that thread a debate over people - real people who frequent this forum - and the way they choose to care for their families wasn't cool at all. We all do what we can for the health and welfare of our families, the best way we know how. Sitting on the side and judging is one thing. Pointing the finger and making others feel even more worthless than scum is another. We've all done that from time to time here, but for some reason, this was so hurtful - even to me, and I wasn't even involved in the thread. More hurtful than I thought most of us had the ability to be.
Ards, I understand your feeling of having to leave this site. I do, however, wish you would reconsider, but I will support whatever decision you feel is necessary for yourself and for Jan. I, myself, have left a forum or two because of the clashing of minds.
Many friendships have been made here - apologies are small, but small steps are sometimes necessary in order to make things right. I apologize if I offend anyone here, but I honestly feel these things needed to be said.
You are now returned to your regularly scheduled program.
greenfreak
New Member
Nice to see someone take my last sentence seriously.
Na, very well said. Couldn't have said it better.
Na, very well said. Couldn't have said it better.
Ardsgaine
Active Member
Na, I was writing you a long PM when Levi flipped off the wall switch and cut the power to the computer. *sigh* I'll go ahead and try to give you the Readers' Digest version here, and hopefully it won't be the cause for anymore dispute.
The point I was trying to make in RW was just that a system of charity based on government coercion is wrong, and that it's not necessary. Charity should be private and voluntary, either through family and friends, or from organizations that rely on private donations.
I wasn't trying to say that people who go to the government for help are evil. If it's really a choice between taking government help or letting your children go hungry, take the government help.
I know that the point wasn't made very well. I understand why it was interpreted as hurtful to Les. I could have made it clearer if I had been given the chance. Had I been gently chided instead of judged and executed, I could have even offered an apology.
I'm not trying to restart the debate over here, I just thought I owed you that clarification since you spent so much time on your response.
It's hard to stay some place where people view you as an ogre. I've tried to present my complete personality here. I have very strong political views, and they're a large part of who I am. I also have my family, my occupation, my history as a person... I've shared all of those things on the board. Now they've become weapons to be used against me. I won't stay around for that.
The point I was trying to make in RW was just that a system of charity based on government coercion is wrong, and that it's not necessary. Charity should be private and voluntary, either through family and friends, or from organizations that rely on private donations.
I wasn't trying to say that people who go to the government for help are evil. If it's really a choice between taking government help or letting your children go hungry, take the government help.
I know that the point wasn't made very well. I understand why it was interpreted as hurtful to Les. I could have made it clearer if I had been given the chance. Had I been gently chided instead of judged and executed, I could have even offered an apology.
I'm not trying to restart the debate over here, I just thought I owed you that clarification since you spent so much time on your response.
nalani said:
It's hard to stay some place where people view you as an ogre. I've tried to present my complete personality here. I have very strong political views, and they're a large part of who I am. I also have my family, my occupation, my history as a person... I've shared all of those things on the board. Now they've become weapons to be used against me. I won't stay around for that.
Squiggy
ThunderDick
First of all, thank you na, gf, and others for treating this with more tact than I did.
I wish to publicly apologize to all otc members for my actions in this incident. I acted deplorably and I am aware that I did. If there is a punishment to be served, I humbly accept whatever might be deemed appropriate.
I also want to thank those who offered input on this matter and let you know that I appreciate and respect that input.
I do, however, need to state that this incident was not the fault of any mod and I don't think it fair that they should be maligned for it. It all took place faster than any mod could have intervened.
Again, I humbly ask the member's forgiveness.
I wish to publicly apologize to all otc members for my actions in this incident. I acted deplorably and I am aware that I did. If there is a punishment to be served, I humbly accept whatever might be deemed appropriate.
I also want to thank those who offered input on this matter and let you know that I appreciate and respect that input.
I do, however, need to state that this incident was not the fault of any mod and I don't think it fair that they should be maligned for it. It all took place faster than any mod could have intervened.
Again, I humbly ask the member's forgiveness.
greenfreak
New Member
A big 
to all of you. I don't know what's going to happen from here, but I have more faith in you RW people than I did before. Thanks for that.
baby steps, just remember... baby steps.
to all of you. I don't know what's going to happen from here, but I have more faith in you RW people than I did before. Thanks for that. baby steps, just remember... baby steps.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
I leave for a couple days, and look what happens...
I've done my share of rudeness as well, but never to a scale to make somebody leave an entire site before. At least not to my knowledge...
There's a difference between disagreeing and being disagreeable.
Ards, I'll miss you and Jan and your posts. Please come back, and add your insight to the fold.
I've done my share of rudeness as well, but never to a scale to make somebody leave an entire site before. At least not to my knowledge...There's a difference between disagreeing and being disagreeable.
Ards, I'll miss you and Jan and your posts. Please come back, and add your insight to the fold.
