Here is your bill

chcr said:
See, here's something I can't believe. That anyone at all can possibly believe that Iraq is or has (or will ever have) the capability to be a threat to national security.
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In 2000 would you have belived that a handful of foreign nat'l moosy would have came to the United States, get trained on how to fly large comercial jets into several large buildings with ~100,000 people inside those buildings?
 
Damn...

In 2000 nobody ever believed Canada would conquer St. Louis with space monsters.

That must be next.

Screw you Canada!
 
ResearchMonkey said:
In 2000 would you have belived that a handful of foreign nat'l moosy would have came to the United States, get trained on how to fly large comercial jets into several large buildings with ~100,000 people inside those buildings?
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Yes, I would have and I did (or at least it didn't particularly surprise me). What I didn't expect is that we'd ignore the people who perpetrated this heinous act and let them get away with it. How about you?
 
chcr said:
Yes, I would have and I did (or at least it didn't particularly surprise me). What I didn't expect is that we'd ignore the people who perpetrated this heinous act and let them get away with it. How about you?
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No, I couldn't imagine it. I had thought of maybe a mall attack or maybe a bridge, . . . . no, I was floored as I watched that 2nd plane impact live

The perps died, But I get your gest. The Muslim extremest are in many countries.

...where do you suggest we start?

We made a move based on American princaple and the best possible intel available, much wasn't perfect intel, but the nature of intel is like that. 'Specially when someone is trying to convience you they are a threat. Nonetheless, terrorist have been flowing into iraq and we have been killing them there. Its not the Iraqi war, its the Global War on Terror.

Here's the simple fact. We are there, it is where it begins.

I'm NOT perfectly happy with it, but the fact is we are where we are, now we need to advance from here, that would include using the foothold we have fought for to further the mission of nailing the groups that would make another attack of this type.

It's my belief another attack will happen in the next few years.

I'm prepared for WW2 era rationing and re-tooling (whats left) of American industies. Drilling the shit outta Anwar, more nuke electricity, electric cars etc.

I certainly will not consider losing the War on Terror, go team.
 
ResearchMonkey said:
No, I couldn't imagine it. I had thought of maybe a mall attack or maybe a bridge, . . . . no, I was floored as I watched that 2nd plane impact live

The perps died, But I get your gest. The Muslim extremest are in many countries.

...where do you suggest we start?

We made a move based on American princaple and the best possible intel available, much wasn't perfect intel, but the nature of intel is like that. 'Specially when someone is trying to convience you they are a threat. Nonetheless, terrorist have been flowing into iraq and we have been killing them there. Its not the Iraqi war, its the Global War on Terror.

Here's the simple fact. We are there, it is where it begins.

I'm NOT perfectly happy with it, but the fact is we are where we are, now we need to advance from here, that would include using the foothold we have fought for to further the mission of nailing the groups that would make another attack of this type.

It's my belief another attack will happen in the next few years.

I'm prepared for WW2 era rationing and re-tooling (whats left) of American industies. Drilling the shit outta Anwar, more nuke electricity, electric cars etc.

I certainly will not consider losing the War on Terror, go team.
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:yawn: The best intel said they were in Afghanistan. The best intel says they still are although they cross the border into Pakistan pretty freely.

In fact, there was a Tom Clancy book (mid-nineties sometime) that explained how to do what turned out to be the 9/11 attacks. I knew when I read it that it was probably just a matter of time until it happened somewhere. :shrug: Do you suppose the guys who planned it read the same book?

The "War on Terror" is simply a piece of propaganda perpetrated by those in power to keep you complacent. It's no more meaningful than the "War on Drugs." If you believe that either one really exists and if your honest with yourself about what's really going on in the world today, then you must accept the evidence that we're getting our asses kicked in both cases. Mustn't you? Are there fewer terrorists? What I see is bin Laden thumbing his nose at us. He's completely irrelevant and yet we as a nation quake in our figurative boots whenever he deigns to speak. Makes ya proud to be American, don't it?
 
Iraq is a foothold. It so happens that Iraq was violating a surrender decree for the early 90's. Had been since the start. We needed another place to land our military...one that would put us nearer the common enemies (syria, iran). The foothold country had a list of problems a mile long & was unfinished business.

Two, two, two mints in one.
 
ResearchMonkey said:
So invading pakistan is what you advise? Get bin laden and all will be well?
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Nope. Stop pretending that muslim terrorists are a threat to the nation and go after them like the criminals they are. All this political posturing and self-righteous whining gives them much, much more power than they actually possess. Of course, we can't stop dealing with countries that support (either tacitly or actively) these backward jackasses because too much money would be lost by those with access to power, but that's the real answer. You've mentioned it yourself. Tighten the belt, batten down the hatches and stop dealing with such countries altogether. Bet you a dollar we can last longer than they can. Of course, with the economic emergence of China that becomes rather more difficult. The problem of course, is that the sheeple will never stand still for it. "I need gas for my Hummer."

Bin Laden is completely irrelevant, he's just a boogeyman to scare the sheeple. Getting him means nothing to the terrorists other than to create a martyr. The only reason he's news at all is because of the way we react to him but Pakistan is certainly one of those countries we should refuse to deal with until they can start policing themselves better. So's Saudi Arabia.
 
and go after them like the criminals they are
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"...said Bill CLinton as he refused binLaden, several times"

These groups are at war with us. They are notr common criminals & this is not a criminal matter. I do not want Ahwantajihadman getting habeus corpus.
 
Gonz said:
"...said Bill CLinton as he refused binLaden, several times"

These groups are at war with us. They are notr common criminals & this is not a criminal matter. I do not want Ahwantajihadman getting habeus corpus.
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No, they are not at war with us. A war is a large scale conflict, usually between states or nations. What these mad idiots are doing is not and never has been a war. Calling it a war gives it a legitimacy that serves them, not us. Why are we so bent on helping them, do you suppose? When it comes to helping them or us, I'm voting us, every time. Why aren't you?

Edit: Clinton was an idiot. His wife isn't an improvement.
 
chcr said:
No, they are not at war with us. A war is a large scale conflict, usually between states or nations. What these mad idiots are doing is not and never has been a war. Calling it a war gives it a legitimacy that serves them, not us. Why are we so bent on helping them, do you suppose? When it comes to helping them or us, I'm voting us, every time. Why aren't you?

Edit: Clinton was an idiot. His wife isn't an improvement.
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So, if not war, what is it?

What besides tightening our belts and ignoreing the islamos and their nations, what do we do?
 
ResearchMonkey said:
So, if not war, what is it?

What besides tightening our belts and ignoreing the islamos and their nations, what do we do?
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Withdraw our military presence, bring everybody home, take the money being spent on this effort and reallocate it to welfare and pork and S-chip, bury our heads in the sand (or California mud if you prefer), and play like nothing ever happened.








*3 pauses to stop cracking up. Not bad.
 
ResearchMonkey said:
So, if not war, what is it?

What besides tightening our belts and ignoreing the islamos and their nations, what do we do?
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You're not getting the picture, RM. We don't ignore them. We do no business with them at all. We do no business with anyone who does business with them. No American held businesses do any business with any businesses that do. We sell them nothing, we buy nothing from them. No food, no oil, no humanitarian aid, nothing. We pull our embassies, we pull our troops, we have no diplomatic relations with any country that is even suspected of having any ties with terrorists. None of their citizens can come here, none of ours can go there. This includes allies as well as enemies. In short, we make it clear that we don't play this game and if you do, we don't play with you. The rest of the world is utterly dependent on the US economy. Give them a taste of what it's like to do without it. It wouldn't last long but in the real world you'll never get it started. What's being done now is clearly not working. Do you think we're seriously safer from terrorist attack than you thought we were five years ago?
 
chcr said:
:yawn: The best intel said they were in Afghanistan. The best intel says they still are although they cross the border into Pakistan pretty freely.
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Aren't we in Afghanistan?

In fact, there was a Tom Clancy book (mid-nineties sometime) that explained how to do what turned out to be the 9/11 attacks. I knew when I read it that it was probably just a matter of time until it happened somewhere. :shrug: Do you suppose the guys who planned it read the same book?
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If only the Bush Administration had read Debt of Honor. They would've anticipated the attacks. Damn. You should've said something. :rolleyes:

The "War on Terror" is simply a piece of propaganda perpetrated by those in power to keep you complacent. It's no more meaningful than the "War on Drugs." If you believe that either one really exists and if your honest with yourself about what's really going on in the world today, then you must accept the evidence that we're getting our asses kicked in both cases. Mustn't you?
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Complacent?? You mean being content without awareness of a potential danger?

How can you acknowledge "what's really going on in the world today" and in the same breath call the GWoT 'propaganda'? Unless by "what's going on" you meant something other than

The establishment media is seemingly obsessed with “grim milestones” in the War on Terror, as the Associated Press reminds us this past weekend. But in the next week those same establishment media outlets will probably stand mute when yet another “grim milestone” is reached – the 10,000th attack by Islamic terrorists and militants since 9/11, which is responsible for approximately 60,000 dead and 90,000 injured. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=453D47F2-EA57-43CD-8DF8-403A77F960BB
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You didn't mention how are we getting our asses kicked?

Are there fewer terrorists? What I see is bin Laden thumbing his nose at us. He's completely irrelevant and yet we as a nation quake in our figurative boots whenever he deigns to speak. Makes ya proud to be American, don't it?
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Do you believe Al Qaeda is the only terrorist threat in the world and no other could become a serious problem in the future? It's no secret that Jihadi terrorist networks are epidemic throughout the Islamic world and their links cross all international boundaries.

You can't concentrate only on one single group to go after and ignore the rest. 9/11 provided a template that any terrorist group could follow. They've done similiar in other countries, but it hasn't happed here since then.
Why?

American people can go to public places safe from the possibility that someone will set off the explosives belt they are wearing, or explode the car they've left in a parking garage, or kill the hostages they've taken at your child's gradeschool because of an awareness those possibilities exist.

You should be glad you are able to rely on someone else who will do the work for you and tell you when to "Look the fuck out!" while you have the luxury of living Pre 9-11. :shrug: It takes the onus from you and puts it, well....
After all, it's still human nature to look out for each other.

P.S. bin Laden's long been dead. And strange you consider the reactions of defiance and contempt to any message out of the ME attempting to direct our way of life as "quaking in our boots."

Nothing can challenge such a religiously held faith as liberalism. So you probably won't understand when I say that yes, I'm proud to be an American.
 
chcr said:
So then the liberals are our only hope against these religiously motivated nutjobs??? Oh shit.
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Umm...no.:grinno:

Our best hope is blowing a hole big enough to hide Illinois in, as I've long advocated. No one seems to have the balls for that though.

If we're going to believe, as some already assert, that the rest of the world sees us as the schoolyard bully, then bully we should go ahead and be. Nobody fucks with the bully because nobody wants to be next. Well folks, if we alter what the next generation's world globe looks like, maybe some of these little sand-flea riddled self-proclaimed leaders hiding in caves and whatnot might think twice before they draw the bully's attention.
 
chcr said:
You're not getting the picture, RM. We don't ignore them. We do no business with them at all. We do no business with anyone who does business with them. No American held businesses do any business with any businesses that do. We sell them nothing, we buy nothing from them. No food, no oil, no humanitarian aid, nothing. We pull our embassies, we pull our troops, we have no diplomatic relations with any country that is even suspected of having any ties with terrorists. None of their citizens can come here, none of ours can go there. This includes allies as well as enemies. In short, we make it clear that we don't play this game and if you do, we don't play with you. The rest of the world is utterly dependent on the US economy. Give them a taste of what it's like to do without it. It wouldn't last long but in the real world you'll never get it started. What's being done now is clearly not working. Do you think we're seriously safer from terrorist attack than you thought we were five years ago?
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OK, so we pretend they don't exist, .... all the while they still focus on destroying us.

First off, that ain't gonna happen for a zillion reason, beside the direct oil factor.

Find somewhere we can drill domestic wells. Being from an oil town, I tell ya, liberals will stop it dead in its tracks.

But "clearly not working" would be wrong. Somethings are working... but I'm sure you can't see any of them, even thoo plenty have been posted.

Yeah I do feel safer, tens of thousands of islamos have flowed into iraq and afgani and have been killed, ....and who wants to experince Shock and Awe Redux
 
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