In a perfect world

I agree wtih Chcr on this one Gato as I think there was quite a bit more there than just one reason. the other thing to remember is that Israel is onyl 54 years old. which means it is still young and what was it before? now think about who lived there
 
I've said this 1000x too...read your history. Israelites have been in that neck of teh woods for over 5000 years.

BTW, the Muslim religion in less than 750 years old.
 
i made a mistake wiht the Muslim thing but realise this. it was Palestine before it was Israel. and from what I have been taught was that it is recognised as an actual country now and Palestine wasnt a country as you said but it was home to the Palestinians and they were forced out.
 
Gato_Solo said:
True, it's a thorny fence we sit upon, but it's a fence none-the-less. Logic dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Our government, OTOH, dictates that the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many. There are times, however, when action, no matter how repulsive, must be taken. If you look back at earlier posts I've made, in different threads, you'll see that, in a majority of cases, I, too, think the detainees should be charged or freed. Not because your government is an ally, or because there is some kind of prejudgement going on, nor even because I think the worlds a jolly-good place. I said so because I think most of them have learned that we (the west) are not as bad as they've been told. In most of the countries where the detainees are from, they'd be either dead, or badly disfigured. That's the life they grew up with, and the laws that they are familiar with. What I object to is mainly this. Fr the past 30 to 40 years, our European allies have complained that the US did nothing to stop or prevent terrorism. In the first World Trade Center bombing, where a bomb was detonated in a parking garage below ground, the US started taking an interest in ME affairs like never before. 10 years later, after several peace "road maps" were violated by both Israelis and Palastinians alike (mostly Palastinians), we had 2 aircraft crash into buildings in our most populous city, killing approximately 3200 people. We took umbrage at this, and attacked the country harboring the terrorist organization responsible. We also attacked a seperate country (Iraq, okay Squiggy?) simply because we thought their leader was an ass, and had been belligerent. During these actions, we scooped up quite a few folks who we thought were either terrorists, enemy combatants, or those who aid and abet the former. Now, all of a sudden, when the US is finally fully involved in 'counter-terrorist' actions, the rest of the world is whining about how we're going about it. Guess what. You've been asking for just such a response for years, so get over it. I'm sorry your citizens got captured in enemy territory, while actively fighting the US, aiding and abetting terrorists, or just plain being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If they didn't know the risks involved by pulling out a tigers whiskers, then maybe they should've just stayed home and complained like everybody else. I've met quite a few Brits, Aussies, and even Canadians who'd agree with me. Don't cry 'human rights' now, when you, yourselves, were letting this whole thing blow up out of proportion. Don't want out help? Leave us alone. It's that simple, really. Usama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Yassir Arafat, Kim Jong Il, Fidel Castro, et al. How many are left? How many are yanking the tigers whiskers?

To sum it all up...Be careful what you wish for.
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Let me get this straight...

The US ignored the issue of international terrorism for decades because it didn't really affect them despite the pleas of it's allies to help out and take the issue seriously, however when the US is the target the rest of the world has to sit back and accept the fact that they are going to completely disregard international law?
 
Gotnolegs said:
Let me get this straight...

The US ignored the issue of international terrorism for decades because it didn't really affect them despite the pleas of it's allies to help out and take the issue seriously, however when the US is the target the rest of the world has to sit back and accept the fact that they are going to completely disregard international law?
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Nope. The US ignored international terrorism for decades because it didn't affect us. Europe asked, on and off, for those same decades for the US to take action...any action...to help alleviate the problem. Now the US is finally doing something, and the rest of the world (especially Western Europe) has been trying to tell the US how to run the show, as it were. You have to understand that you can't have it both ways. If you want the US to do something, and you've been asking for decades now, don't complain when we do it.

Side note...

If those same countries doing the most complaining about terrorism hadn't been letting fanatics into their countries, most of their terrorist problems wouldn't even exist. The only exceptions, really, are countries with their own, home-grown, terrorist groups.
 
Gonz said:
I've said this 1000x too...read your history. Israelites have been in that neck of teh woods for over 5000 years.

BTW, the Muslim religion in less than 750 years old.
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Not exactly. Islam split from Judaism in the seventh century of the common era. Still significantly less than the 5000 years the jews claim, but quite a bit more than 750.

edit: Here's a link
 
Me said:
The US ignored the issue of international terrorism for decades because it didn't really affect them despite the pleas of it's allies to help out and take the issue seriously,
Click to expand...
You said:
Nope. The US ignored international terrorism for decades because it didn't affect us. Europe asked, on and off, for those same decades for the US to take action...any action...to help alleviate the problem.
Click to expand...
Me said:
however when the US is the target the rest of the world has to sit back and accept the fact that they are going to completely disregard international law?
Click to expand...
you said:
Now the US is finally doing something, and the rest of the world (especially Western Europe) has been trying to tell the US how to run the show, as it were. You have to understand that you can't have it both ways. If you want the US to do something, and you've been asking for decades now, don't complain when we do it.
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So the only difference is that I see it as the US not breaking international law, you see it as the US being told what to do by others.

Is that it?
 
Gotnolegs said:
So the only difference is that I see it as the US not breaking international law, you see it as the US being told what to do by others.

Is that it?
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Pretty much. We were asked to take action. We took action...and now we hear complaints about the action we took. :nuts:
 
freako104 said:
so they asked us to take action but didnt say what action to take?
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You've got it. They wanted us to do something, and then, when we started, wanted to dictate to us which actions to take. Can't have it both ways.
 
Had they been more specific I could understand. they said take action. they didnt say what kind. why complain?
 
Gato_Solo said:
You've got it. They wanted us to do something, and then, when we started, wanted to dictate to us which actions to take. Can't have it both ways.
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You honestly think that?

It must be nice to live in a world where averything is either black or white.
 
Gotnolegs said:
You honestly think that?

It must be nice to live in a world where averything is either black or white.
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If everyone did that, then we wouldn't have the problems we have now. Politicians make the issues grey so they don't have to take a stand. ;)
 
Gato_Solo said:
If everyone did that, then we wouldn't have the problems we have now. Politicians make the issues grey so they don't have to take a stand. ;)
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Lol! Don't get me started again... :)
 
:winkkiss:

Hmmm, how 'creative'-- Muslims killing Muslims:

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/iraq3_20040303.htm

"BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Near-simultaneous suicide bombings in two Iraqi cities killed at least 143 people Tuesday as tens of thousands of Shi'ites from Iraq, Iran and elsewhere crowded near mosques to celebrate their faith's most important holy day....Iraqi and U.S. officials blamed the bombings on terrorists seeking to provoke conflict among Iraqis divided along ethnic and religious lines, and to disrupt U.S. attempts to return sovereignty to a transitional Iraqi government by June 30. "

Much preferred than Muslims killing Americans:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040209-115406-6221r.htm
Islamic extremists invade U.S., join sleeper cells
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

" Islamic radicals are being trained at terrorist camps in Pakistan and Kashmir as part of a conspiracy to send hundreds of operatives to "sleeper cells" in the United States, according to U.S. and foreign officials.
The intelligence and law-enforcement officials say dozens of Islamic extremists have already been routed through Europe to Muslim communities in the United States, based on secret intelligence data and information from terrorists and others detained by U.S. authorities.
A high-ranking foreign intelligence chief told The Washington Times in an interview last week that this clandestine but aggressive network of training camps "represents a serious threat to the United States, one that cannot be ignored." The official said as many as 400 terrorists have been and are being trained at camps in Pakistan and Kashmir. "

But, as you Liberals will believe, America deserves to be attacked:
"The only meaningful crime is the crime of the social system against those it oppresses and abuses." The only way to deal with terrorism is to address the 'root causes', and I'll bet you can define the 'root causes': "The U.S. has been oppressing Third World nations for years--- what with buying their oil, supplying them with foriegn aid, painting them as primitive and fanatical failures---it was only a matter of time before they struck us back"....can I get a "hell yes" from one of you? Thank you, I knew you wouldn't disappoint.
 
for the record noone deserves to be attacked. But they had their reasons to do so. they have their reasons to hate us. that doesnt mean we deserve it.
 
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