Indoctrination 101

[Gonz]

See I disagree, you shouldn't lose your house because you get sick or your husband gets sick and dies.

Why do you think you buy real estate? Rent is cheaper & less hassle. It's a long term investment. It's a good idea to buy more than one and/or buy land too.

Sometimes you need to use that investment & sometimes your kids get lucky.

With debt comes headaches.

You sell any odds & ends that have value.

You sell your jewelry.

You sell your silver.

You sell your gold.

You sell your home.

You take care of your debt.

 

[randomJACKASS]

Prof, since you and cato seem to be the only ones in this thread even worth trying to actually discuss ideas with; I put to you, how can you expect people to take personal responsibility for things that at least 7 out of 10 cannot possibly be personally responsible for? If you make a big claim, that's it. private insurance burns you at the stake. At least 7 of 10, more likely 9 of 10 people under the American system are one disease away from complete financial ruin, and if completely disabled they can get Medicare. I hear folks say Medicaid helps in the short term.....BULLSHIT! Even in better financial times in my state, you had to make less than $1000 a month for a family of four to be eligible for medicaid and your deductible was $2000!

Since those days of excess, now there is no temporary disability welfare in my state, so if you get injured off the job, you better hope you can be qualified as 100% disabled in a 2-10 year social security process, living off $339 and $200 of food stamps and Medicaid in the mean time!

You can talk all you want about how we should be in America, but as far as I am concerned, unless you are here and go though these issues or personally know (and care about) folks who do, you are just talking out of your ass! (Nothing personal, but do I need to tell you, Prof this? Mostly I say it for benefit of the philosophically challenged.)

Private business will not take care of humanitarian aid (medical) unless they are so regulated they might as well be government run, or they are government run. No matter the pitfalls of socialized medicine, it seems that 99% of industrialized nations favor it, and only we oppose it. That should tell any reasonable person that there is something TOTALLY FUCKED about our system. You cannot force private business to be humanitarian, and if not who else will be if not government?

I read the term "EuroPeons" somewhere recently, and it just fucking made me go "how typically American!" Only (usually) an American will be so arrogant, and ignorant, or perhaps downright stupid enough to make such a statement without having any real experience with Europe or Europeans. I HATE that about our country! So large of a percentage of our population seems to be egomaniacs with inferiority complexes! They don't even seem to be capable of looking at other ways of doing things, we are superior, even though everything sucks?!?

I have been to Europe, I talk to Europeans on an almost daily basis, they couldn't be paid enough to want to come here for anything but a vacation!

Things we can be personally responsible for we should be, but I do not see any way that is ever going to be possible with modern medicine.

Besides, if you idiots who want to pay cash for your medical want go to a third world country, get references on your doctor, and pay that guy less than you ever would here, that option will be open to you for many years to come.... Just leave us sane rational people to finding an actual solution to the problem!

 

[spike]

You take care of your debt.

Yep, you should definitely take care of your debt. Gonna be kinda hard if you go bankrupt from medical bills. Good reason to have this public option.

 

[Cerise]

Do you really think the public option is free??

You should ask: Who pays for 0bama care if I become insolvent? Will I have to work it off?

 

[Professur]

RJ, I've already named the solution .. the co-op. I offer you, as an example, the Knights of Columbus. Started as a group of catholic men who simply agreed to look after one another's family in the event of disaster. Not the dreaded socialism, but perhaps one of the original social networks. Any member could call for help, and any member was sworn to offer all possible aid. The only criteria: be a practicing catholic male, of majority. It has since evolved into one of the preeminent insurance companies in the world, and one of precious few who's value didn't tailspin into the toilet with the latest fiscal nightmare ...because they're not blinded by easy profit. Requirements for coverage? For a Knight in good standing ... none. No pre-existing conditions, no ramping fees, no trying to avoid payment.

Back when people took responsibility for themselves and their neighbours, co-ops were common. They could be again.

 

[spike]

Do you really think the public option is free??

No, that was Gonz who thought it was free.

 

[randomJACKASS]

RJ, I've already named the solution .. the co-op. I offer you, as an example, the Knights of Columbus. Started as a group of catholic men who simply agreed to look after one another's family in the event of disaster. Not the dreaded socialism, but perhaps one of the original social networks. Any member could call for help, and any member was sworn to offer all possible aid. The only criteria: be a practicing catholic male, of majority. It has since evolved into one of the preeminent insurance companies in the world, and one of precious few who's value didn't tailspin into the toilet with the latest fiscal nightmare ...because they're not blinded by easy profit. Requirements for coverage? For a Knight in good standing ... none. No pre-existing conditions, no ramping fees, no trying to avoid payment.

Back when people took responsibility for themselves and their neighbours, co-ops were common. They could be again.

That has been tried and big insurance crushed it. For it to work it will require federal regulation that cons will be screaming about 50 years from now. It's a nice theory, but let's be serious!

 

[catocom]

Private business will not take care of humanitarian aid (medical) unless they are so regulated they might as well be government run, or they are government run. No matter the pitfalls of socialized medicine, it seems that 99% of industrialized nations favor it, and only we oppose it. That should tell any reasonable person that there is something TOTALLY FUCKED about our system. You cannot force private business to be humanitarian, and if not who else will be if not government?

IMO, the right kind of tort reform, and maybe, maybe some kind of more co-op.

Devil's in the details. So to speak.

There are other options I'm sure, but those readily come to my mind atm.
Once again it comes down to trust, and/or the correct kind of oversight.
THAT's the tough part.

 

[Gonz]

If you make a big claim, that's it. private insurance burns you at the stake.

What personal experience makes you say that? It certainly wasn't the case with us. I've known people who reached MAXIMUM LIFETIME BENEFIT & were dropped. But hey, look at the contract. They reached MAXIMUM LIFETIME BENEFIT. They could have paid a larger premium & had that MAXIMUM LIFETIME BENEFIT increaed but they didn't.

I've also know people who had claims in the half million dollar range & their insurance continued. I've known people who were dropped at the hundred thousand level. There is no great private carrier conspiracy panel. Situations differ.

The company is there to assist you, for a fee. You chose a private insurance company & chose to do business with them. Most likely, looking for the lowest bidder. That is the trade off. Go for a larger fee & you'll find your contract changes.

Your government-in-action decided to begin requiring more & more mandated coverage of daily, routine things. That does nothing but create a larger premium (which you were told it would do). So, the old cheap policy is now the relatively expensive policy but hey, they pay for you chiropratic & mental care. They pay for your girlfriends monthly cycle of pills. Not a bad trade for a small increase in premium (what's 30%/year between friends). Hell, for that extra $1297, you could havew paid a lifetime worth of birth control medication but you wanted Senator Blowhard to make it free, DAMNIT!!!!

Since those days of excess, now there is no temporary disability welfare in my state, so if you get injured off the job, you better hope you can be qualified as 100% disabled in a 2-10 year social security process, living off $339 and $200 of food stamps and Medicaid in the mean time!

So move. That's the part about state rights. You can go elsewhere. Under a federal program, it's the law everywhere. Of course, it is possible that your state legislators made the temp-disability thing go away because lawyers & drug addicts who abused the system. But what do I know?

Private business will not take care of humanitarian aid (medical)

Nor should they. It's not their place. If you want the red Cross, go to the Red Cross.

unless they are so regulated they might as well be government run, or they are government run.

That sir is the very essence of communism.

No matter the pitfalls of socialized medicine, it seems that 99% of industrialized nations favor it,

That makes it right? 99% of the industrialized world also opposes private ownership of guns.

I read the term "EuroPeons" somewhere recently, and it just fucking made me go "how typically American!"

]

That would be me. The first day of my transformation to an American pig was the first day I spent in Europe. They have a wonderful system...for the 18th century. It's quite metropolitan.

Thay can have it. Libberty does not exist anywhere but America & we're handing that away. I prefer to keep mine thankyouverymuch.

Things we can be personally responsible for we should be,

Yes, we should. Everything that the government has been specifically authorized to take care of shoud be handled by the government. Read the Constitution. It's drawn out there, quite nicely.

Besides, if you idiots who want to pay cash for your medical

Only idiots pay their bills?

 

[Gonz]

That has been tried and big insurance crushed it.

Say what? What would the reasoning be "to crush it"? There is no reason to end competition.

For it to work it will require federal regulation that cons will be screaming about 50 years from now.

Because it's not the job of the federal government. We scream so you can quietly go about your life.

 

[randomJACKASS]

IMO, the right kind of tort reform, and maybe, maybe some kind of more co-op.

Devil's in the details. So to speak.

There are other options I'm sure, but those readily come to my mind atm.
Once again it comes down to trust, and/or the correct kind of oversight.
THAT's the tough part.

What he said! (He is anything but stupid, except in the sense we are all stupid!)

Yeah, but at this point, I am pessimistic about our current governments ability to deal with details!

 

[Gotholic]

Please examine the video and tell me how you interpret it.

I am seriously curious how you explain this vs. the previous video.

The kids are being told to bless the president, there is the difference. But I digress, I only wanted to point out to you that they are not actually praying to the president. Even if they were praying to the president, that does not justify having the kids praise Obama. In fact, any Pentecostal video, or any religious video you may post would not justify it.

I love that you brought this video up. I'm especially happy that both of your videos have "Hitler Youth" in the title. You put a little extra crazy in there with that.

So tell me, what is your problem with this video? This video is of a Step Dance troupe doing a routine they made incorporating how Obama has inspired them to become doctors and lawyers and such.

Somehow this scares you that some youths on their own time unrelated to school would come up with a routine talking about how they been inspired by a successful guy to be successful?

What scares you here?

It does not scare me per se, however, I do have a problem with it. The problem is that they are putting the president on a pedestal while having a false sense of inspiration from him. I am sure if you had Wall Street backing you, then you would have an inspiration to go out and be what you want to be as well. I am sure that all the professions those kids expressed of what they wanted to be had blacks accomplished previously. If anything, those first black persons who achieved to have an occupation the kids have wanted should have been their inspiration, not this byproduct of Wall Street/media that is Obama.

Sure, the state is not making it mandatory to have the kids praise Obama like it was done to Hitler. Hence, it is a voluntary thing that some adults in a position of authority are doing on their own to the kids. But that difference is very thin.

Don't know the context here but it looks like a commercial but with Hitler thrown in randomly at the end. Love that.

Cute kids, nice commercial. You know what stuff uses a lot of Hitler methodology? Commercials. Also politicians. Also news outlets. Churches especially.

That commercial was nice. Cute kids looking towards the future. Much better than the FEAR, FEAR, FEAR, commies, eugenics, death panel, muslim, marxist, hitler, kenyan, immigrants stealing our jobs, killing grandma, hitleresque drama hysteria we've been hearing.

Whether or not other aspects of society have included Nazi like tactics, it does not justify them being used now. Like I said earlier, the only difference I see is that it is not being made mandatory for these kids to praise Obama.

I do not think they will make it mandatory though. It will be much more subtle.

If you're upset about that than this is really going to disturb you

They are telling the kids to love Jesus. What is wrong with that? Even if you find that wrong or some other aspect I am not aware of that you dislike, in your mind does two wrongs really make a right? - Does it really justify having the kids praise Obama like that?

I'm with you. Obviously these evangelicals are the craziest fuckers in our country and we should be very suspicious of them. Especially when children are concerned right? Shit this is complete doctrination into crazy shit.

I do not agree with what the evangelicals are doing or any of these Christian branches. However, I would not say you are with me.

 

[Cerise]

 

[randomJACKASS]

They are telling the kids to love Jesus. What is wrong with that?

You obviously don't pay much attention or know much about some Jesus camps! I am sure not all are bad by any means, but for the scary ones, they aren't teaching love at all! They are teaching fear of Jesus, fear of the devil, fear of the world, and hatred of those who do not wave the born again flag! These people are sick and they are trying to breed hateful generations. It isn't said out and out, but they are trying to build an army to assimilate all they can and annihilate those who they cannot.

Jesus would NOT approve of it at all. These people are as close to large organized satanic cults as even actually exist at all in the whole world and they think they are following Jesus which makes it all the scarier! They can't wait for the "rapture" (which is really a cult trapping and largely laughed at by real theologians) and I am sure they love the idea of the "tribulation" and the suffering it will supposedly bring! Pure evil it is, simple as that!

These sick cult bastards ARE the wolves in sheep's clothing the bible warns about. If you can't see that I think you are completely duped and I pity you!

JUDAS

My mind is clearer now.
At last all too well
I can see where we all soon will be.
If you strip away The myth from the man,
You will see where we all soon will be. Jesus!
You've started to believe
The things they say of you.
You really do believe
This talk of God is true.
And all the good you've done
Will soon get swept away.
You've begun to matter more
Than the things you say.

Listen Jesus I don't like what I see.
All I ask is that you listen to me.
And remember, I've been your right hand man all along.
You have set them all on fire.
They think they've found the new Messiah.
And they'll hurt you when they find they're wrong.

I remember when this whole thing began.
No talk of God then, we called you a man.
And believe me, my admiration for you hasn't died.
But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way.
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied.
Nazareth, your famous son should have stayed a great unknown
Like his father carving wood He'd have made good.
Tables, chairs, and oaken chests would have suited Jesus best.
He'd have caused nobody harm; no one alarm.

Listen, Jesus, do you care for your race?
Don't you see we must keep in our place?
We are occupied; have you forgotten how put down we are?

I am frightened by the crowd.
For we are getting much too loud.
And they'll crush us if we go too far.
If they go too far....

Listen, Jesus, to the warning I give.
Please remember that I want us to live.
But it's sad to see our chances weakening with every hour.
All your followers are blind.
Too much heaven on their minds.
It was beautiful, but now it's sour.
Yes it's all gone sour.

Listen, Jesus, to the warning I give.
Please remember that I want us to live.
C'mon, c'mon
He won't listen to me ...
C'mon, c'mon
He won't listen to me ...

WAY too much truth, especially in the red parts as far as I can tell!

 

[Gonz]

they are trying to build an army to assimilate all they can and annihilate those who they cannot.

Who does that sound like? I keep getting told that being afraid of people like that is dumb.

 

[2minkey]

jesus was a socialist fag. who cares what she woulda liked?

 

[Gotholic]

You obviously don't pay much attention or know much about some Jesus camps! I am sure not all are bad by any means, but for the scary ones, they aren't teaching love at all! They are teaching fear of Jesus, fear of the devil, fear of the world, and hatred of those who do not wave the born again flag! These people are sick and they are trying to breed hateful generations. It isn't said out and out, but they are trying to build an army to assimilate all they can and annihilate those who they cannot.

I do not doubt there are camps like that, nor did I say there were none. However, in spike's post about that particular camp, I have found nothing alarming.

Jesus would NOT approve of it at all. These people are as close to large organized satanic cults as even actually exist at all in the whole world and they think they are following Jesus which makes it all the scarier! They can't wait for the "rapture" (which is really a cult trapping and largely laughed at by real theologians) and I am sure they love the idea of the "tribulation" and the suffering it will supposedly bring! Pure evil it is, simple as that!

Ah, well, like I said, I do not like what Christian branches do.

These sick cult bastards ARE the wolves in sheep's clothing the bible warns about. If you can't see that I think you are completely duped and I pity you!

Wolves in sheep clothing would be very hard to spot. After all, they are in sheep's clothing.

JUDAS

My mind is clearer now.
At last all too well
I can see where we all soon will be.
If you strip away The myth from the man,
You will see where we all soon will be. Jesus!
You've started to believe
The things they say of you.
You really do believe
This talk of God is true.
And all the good you've done
Will soon get swept away.
You've begun to matter more
Than the things you say.

WAY too much truth, especially in the red parts as far as I can tell!

Jesus claimed to be God. Either he was, or he was a madman.

 

[catocom]

Jesus claimed to be God. Either he was, or he was a madman.

He also said you can't understand heavenly things.

 

[randomJACKASS]

Well the song you must understand was supposed to be in Judas' perspective at the time. I believe personally that at VERY least, if Jesus isn't a myth entirely, (and I think he was real) he was of the divine. But so are all of us! The exception perhaps being sociopaths. That is not to say that Jesus wasn't closer and more true to what "God" actually is, than any man that ever walked this earth, but as I see it is not mine to know. I can find almost no fault with his teachings. The thing was, if he was indeed the most Godly man to walk the earth, he was still also just a man! That is what the Bible says was the point. God had sent a begotten son to live as a man.

I can find a lot of fault with the interpretations of the Bible that powerful men have imposed on it over the years. That does NOT mean that the Bible is a complete fiction novel, but I in NO way believe is is even possible that it could be the literal and infallible word of God.

 

[spike]

The kids are being told to bless the president, there is the difference. But I digress, I only wanted to point out to you that they are not actually praying to the president. Even if they were praying to the president, that does not justify having the kids praise Obama. In fact, any Pentecostal video, or any religious video you may post would not justify it.

The point is the Jesus camp folks are far worse. "do some warfare", speaking in tongues, raising two hands like they're worshiping him, laying hands on him. Yeah, way worse than the Obama thing.

It does not scare me per se, however, I do have a problem with it. The problem is that they are putting the president on a pedestal while having a false sense of inspiration from him.

No, they are inspired by a successful intelligent man who became president. All presidents in recent history have had financial backing. It does not lessen his accomplishments and he inspires kids in a sep dance troop to make a routine about how their inspired to be successful then there's nothing wrong with it.

They can be inspired by whoever they want. If their neighbor is a successful doctor they could even be inspired by a random neighbor. It doesn't have to be "the first black doctor". Who are you to be making rules about who can inspire kids?

Sure, the state is not making it mandatory to have the kids praise Obama like it was done to Hitler. Hence, it is a voluntary thing that some adults in a position of authority are doing on their own to the kids. But that difference is very thin.

The difference that's thin is the difference between kids praising Bush and others praising Obama. Any freakin' Hitler comparisons are ridiculous.

Whether or not other aspects of society have included Nazi like tactics, it does not justify them being used now. Like I said earlier, the only difference I see is that it is not being made mandatory for these kids to praise Obama.

I do not think they will make it mandatory though. It will be much more subtle.

Since there are no Nazi like tactics being used by the Obama administration I guess you have nothing to worry about. You could make a strong case however that the Bush administration used a lot of Nazi tactics.

They are telling the kids to love Jesus. What is wrong with that?

If you watched the video you would see that they're training kids to be God's army and declaring "this means war!".

Does it really justify having the kids praise Obama like that?

Maybe that teacher shouldn't have had the kids singing about Obama because they're may have been some Republican parents who didn't approve. That's really the only problem. This teacher clearly wasn't using "hitler tactics". She had a song about something she is into.