Little Mosque On The Prairie

[chcr]

It would be hard to top the catholic violence yet as is written in the bible tthere was genocide of entire cities in the old testament. So christian violence goes back long before Jesus.

Sorry? That went by a little fast for me.

Time machine?

 

[Gato_Solo]

Sorry? That went by a little fast for me.

Time machine?

Naah. Just a breath of hot air with no research or meaning...

 

[spike]

Sorry? That went by a little fast for me.

Time machine?

The god of the Old Testament is the christian god too. So when referring to Old Testament genocide would you prefer the term christian-approved genocide?

 

[spike]

Naah. Just a breath of hot air with no research or meaning...

You got nothing to add to the discussion except lame insults? Talk about hot air

 

[chcr]

The god of the Old Testament is the christian god too. So when referring to Old Testament genocide would you prefer the term christian-approved genocide?

The god of the Old Testament is the muslim god too. So when referring to Old Testament genocide would you prefer the term muslim-approved genocide?

 

[spike]

I suppose you can call it Muslim, Jewish, and Christian approved genocide. I brought it up because Gotholic specifically approved of the genocide in another thread so for sake of discussion we'll call it Gotholic-approved genocide

 

[chcr]

Sorry. The point was is (and ever shall be) that you are attributing genocide that occured before there were christians to the christians. I hafve little or no use for any religion at all but even I have a hard time holding them responsible for things that occured when they didn't even exist. Obtuse nonsense, plain and simple. Never mind. Sorry I brought it up.

 

[spike]

Sorry. The point was is (and ever shall be) that you are attributing genocide that occured before there were christians to the christians.

I remember your point and also remember clarifying that I was talking about Old Testament genocide and remember offering to rephrase it to christian-approved or and then gotholic-approved to please you.

I suppose you'd get similarly upset if I referred to the "christian 10 commandments" and while you'd have a point I'm not sure how important it would be.

oops. Forgot the

 

[Gonz]

The Christians have a seperate 10 Commandments? I thought the Jews just passed 'em along.

 

[BB]

oh, you get a top ten for everything nowadays ...Rock, indie, rap ..even classical ...

(suppose classical would be the most appropriate?)

can't really remember little house on the Prairie - was that anything like the waltons?

G'night Jim-Bob ... ..remember that bit!

 

[Gonz]

metal? whatever happened to metal?

 

[spike]

The Christians have a seperate 10 Commandments? I thought the Jews just passed 'em along.

Christians don't have 10 commandments at all. Christ wasn't around then.

 

[BB]

metal? whatever happened to metal?

cheap and nasty, mass produced man-made synthetic happened

 

[Gotholic]

And mohammad's ancestors were attacked before that and the catholics went on many conquests unprovoked to spread the will of the popes.

Before Mohammad came along, the various Arab tribes were all fighting each other. Anyways, I showed you all the Muslims conquests that took place before the launch of the Crusades. Do you deny they happened? If not, then why do you believe all those conquests were not acts of aggression?

I have already proved that the Crusades were in response to Muslim aggression (Alexios I Komnenos, the Byzantine emperor, asked for aide from the pope against attacking Muslims). You have not proved otherwise.

That ensures a one sided viewpoint.

It ensures that highly educated people write and edited articles on history. At Wikipedia, they have plenty of teenagers as administrators.

It shows that the authorities were on the Cathars side until the pope forced it to be otherwise.

Again, it does not negate the majority.

Yes, the bias of the sites you are using is clear yet you complain about Wikipedia and "Catharism sympathizing" sites. You can't have it both ways. Just address the points.

Wikepedia uses amateurs as editors and allows many people without credentials to edit their articles. Everyone has a bias, but Wikipedia inherently cannot be trusted.

I acknowledge the wrongs committed during the Crusades, but maintain the Crusades were launched for just reasons and confirmed it with Pope Urban II's speech, which gave the reasons why. You have provided no proof that the Crusades were launched to forcefully convert non-Catholics. Can you cite a document of some sort that proves the Crusades were not initially due to Muslim aggression? I believe you cannot.

The crusaders were doing what was commanded of them. It was not a last resort as they should have just let them be. It was the catholics who became hostile. The cathars were peaceful and were slaughtered.

You are going to need to back up that outlandish claim - show me where the pope ordered to use excessive force.

It was the Cathars who became hostile first. They murdered Peter of Costineau. After that, then the Crusade was launched against them.

Interestingly you totally ignore that your second two links give several unjust causes as well.

Whatever you think is unjust does not matter. The primary cause was due to Muslim aggression. Would you rather have the European nations be pacifists and watch Europe be conquered by the Muslims?

Sounds like what the pope's did.

Except, the Crusades were defensive.

It would be hard to top the catholic violence yet as is written in the bible tthere was genocide of entire cities in the old testament. So christian violence goes back long before Jesus.

Tangents. Lets try to stay on track.

No Christian violence can be traced to Jesus in the Bible. The same cannot be said for Muslim violence traced to Mohammad in the Koran.

Catharism sympathizing? That's like saying I found a Holocaust sympathizing site. As the catholics slaughtered the cathars simply because they were different like Nazis.

It's not the same. Going to a Jewish sympathizing site might omit what some corrupt Jews did that Hitler used as part of an excuse to persecute them. The beliefs of Cathars were not just different, but were detrimental to society.

You complain about a cathar sympathizing site (while one of the quotes is just from Voltaire) and then give two links two catholic sympathizing sites. You can't see how ridiculous you continue to be on this? Catholic Encyclopedia objective?

It's becoming pretty transparent that you only consider catholic whitewashing of history and can't be objective.

The Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges the evils committed by the Crusades. As I said before, everyone has a bias, but you need to look at both sides of the issue. I have showed where you can look, but as the saying goes, you can only lead a horse to the water.

Yes, it's probably hard enough to try to defend the papal history of violence already.

Actually, no, this is like a walk in the park for me on a nice cool sunny day with the birds chirping and a rainbow just over the horizon. But I will not address every tangent you throw at me.

And how did the christians get there? Because the Romans conquered Jerusalem in 135 and banned all the Jews from the city.

It was the Roman Emperor Hadrian (who was not a Christian) who conquered Jerusalem in 135. He did ban all Jews from the city, but he did ban all Jewish Christians as well.

Christians don't have 10 commandments at all. Christ wasn't around then.

This shows your ignorance of the Christian faith all the more.

 

[paul_valaru]

It's a TV SHOW!!!

and a damn funny one

 

[paul_valaru]

It's not the same. Going to a Jewish sympathizing site might omit what some corrupt Jews did that Hitler used as part of an excuse to persecute them. The beliefs of Cathars were not just different, but were detrimental to society.

??

......

 

[MrBishop]

It's a TV SHOW!!!

and a damn funny one

Welcome to Off Topic central...enjoy your stay.

Look...a shiny piece of paper!

 

[Gotholic]

??

......

It was insignificant. So insignificant that it is almost unheard of.

 

[paul_valaru]

insignificant? sorta sounds like she was wearing a mini skirt, she deserved to be raped.

and cathars followed their own beleifs, it was declared hesesy, and they where killed, they did nothing wrong besides follow their own beleifs.

 

[MrBishop]

Wikepedia uses amateurs as editors and allows many people without credentials to edit their articles. Everyone has a bias, but Wikipedia inherently cannot be trusted.

Everyone seems to bash Wiki, but not just 'anyone' can modify Wiki definitions, and a great many of them (particularly those topics linked to historical events) have references and are written by professionals hoping to promote historical accuracy.

The Cathars link, for instance, comes along with these references.

^ Massacre at Montsegur: A History of the Albigensian Crusade, Zoe Oldenbourg
^ “Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eis.” Caesarius of Heisterbach, Caesarius Heiserbacencis monachi ordinis Cisterciensis, Dialogus miraculorum, ed. J. Strange, Cologne, 1851, J. M. Heberle, Vol 2 , 296-8. Caesarius (c1180-1250) was a Cistercian Prior.
^ Patrologia Latinae cursus completus, series Latina, 221 vols., ed. J-P Migne (1844-64), Paris, Vol. 216:col 139
This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, a publication now in the public domain.
The Yellow Cross: The Story of the Last Cathars, 1290-1329 (Penguin Books) by Rene J.A. Weis
Heresies of the High Middle Ages, Walter Wakefield and Austin P. Evans. Columbia University Press (October 15, 1991) Original source documents in translation.
"Albigenses" by N.A. Weber. The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1907.
"Cathari" by N.A. Weber. The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1908.
Histories of the Cathars: Montaillou: The Promised Land of Error, Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie, trans. Barbara Bray, Vintage Books, 1979
Montsegur and the Mystery of the Cathars, Jean Markale, ISBN 0-89281-090-4, Inner Traditions, http://www.innertraditions.com/titles/momyca.html
The Cathars, Malcolm Lambert, ISBN 0-631-14343-2, Blackwell, 1998
The Treasure of Montsegur: A Novel of the Cathars, Sophy Burnham, ISBN 0-06-000079-1, Harper, 2002
All Things Are Lights, Robert Shea, ISBN 0-345-32903-1, Ballantine, 1986
The Perfect Heresy, Stephen Shea, ISBN 1-86197-350-0, Profile Books 2000
Heresy and the Inquisition II Persecution of Heretics by Dr M D Magee, 12 December 2002.
The Cathars of the Langudoc James McDonald, 2005.
Hilaire Belloc, The Great Heresies, chapter 5: The Albigensian Attack
lastours The four cathar castles above Lastours.
Foucault's Pendulum, Umberto Eco, ISBN 0-345-36875-4, Ballantine, 1988
The Inquisition Record of Jacques Fournier Bishop of Pamiers 1318-1325 (English translation by Nancy P. Stork)
The Cathars: The Most Successful Heresy of the Middle Ages, Sean Martin, Pocket Essentials 2005
The Corruption of Angels: The Great Inquisition of 1245-1246 Mark Gregory Pegg (Princeton University Press, 2001) ISBN 0-691-12371-3. A new and refreshing take on Catharism in Languedoc -- argues against any kind of doctrinal unity of mid-13th-century Cathars.
Jean Duvernoy's transcriptions of inquisitorial manuscripts, many hitherto unpublished [2]
Power and Purity: Cathar Heresy in Medieval Italy Carol Lansing (Oxford University Press, 1998). Cathars outside of Languedoc
Tuez-les tous Dieu reconnaîtra les siens. Le massacre de Bé ziers et la croisade des Albigeois vus par Césaire de Heisterbach Jacques Berlioz (Loubatières, 1994). An up-to-date discussion of the infamous, but legendary, statement "Kill them all, God will know his own."
In France, an ordeal by fire and a monster weapon called 'Bad Neighbor' , Smithsonian Magazine, pp. 40-51, May 1991, by David Roberts. [Cathars & Catholic Conflict]
Flicker, Theodore Roszak, Fictional conspiracy thriller revolving around the Cathars
David George's recently published "The Crusade of Innocents" (amazon.com ISBN 1-4196-4634-6) has as its plot the encounter between a Cathar girl and the leader of the concurrent Chlldren's Crusade Stephen of Cloyes.
CATHARS - Memories of an initiate, by the philosopher Yves Maris, AdA inc, 2006.
Le porteur de lumière - The black secrets of the Vatican, by Gerard Bavoux, Pygmalion, 1996.

No small fries.