Nick Berg

Would you not say thats the right thing to do no matter what middle eastern governments do? Its about doing the right thing. Not lowering ourselves to anyone elses level.
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Agreed. When individual justice needs to be served, be swift, be deliberate, be firm; but people in these countries that are not involved in these actions should not have to pay also. We should always strive to take the high road. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard. It may be a long time before we see the results, but if we do not lash out at these countries, but instead do our best to hunt down the individuals involved, we will not give the terrorists what they desire. IMO, the only way that we can achieve long term success in the middle east is by separating the mainstream people in the middle east from the islamic extremists.

You might say that being "nice" is not really beneficial from a military standpoint. It really is though. It's a soft power that is often overlooked. If a coutntry establishes a reputation of being very fair to countries under their occupation and to their POW's in containment, future conflicts might not be as costly.

For instance, why do you think that so many Iraqis were so quick to surrender in the 1st persian gulf war? Many people will say that it was due to our seperior military training and equipment. This obviously played a significant role. But how about the fact that the Iraqi army surrendered in droves even before they experienced the coalition firepower? Many went searching for American patrols to surrender to well before they even got to fire a shot. If they thought that the country (or coalition) invading was brutal and would terrorize them, I bet they would have put up a very stiff fight.

In a similar fashion, why did we have such an easy time in Afghanistan while the Soviets spent many hard years trying to breakthrough? The Soviet military was far more advanced than the Afghan military forces were. The Soviets also committed far more troops to the conflict than we ever did. The difference was how we were perceived by the people of Afghanistan as a whole. Instead of a nationwide struggle against us, we only faced a relatively small group of extremists.
 
Thulsa Doom said:
first off I read all those kill em all posts you made up above and I would certainly say that qualifies as "cruel" thinking.
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As is so common here, you read into what I write things you think I mean & you are incorrect.

#1
Gonzo said:
let them know that from this point forth there are no safe houses. Run into a hospital, a mosque, a kindergarten or your own house...doesn't matter, it's bombed as soon as the plane can get here. NO EXCEPTIONS.
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Read the words as I wrote them, not as you think they are.

#2
Gonzo said:
Do you realize that there has not been one official condemnation of this act by a Muslim nation.
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Read the words as I wrote them, not as you think they are.

The Gonz theory of damage control: If we wanted to control the damage we wouldn't drop bombs.
 
Berg's dad said:
"I knew he was decapitated before," Michael Berg told the AP. "That manner is preferable to a long and torturous death. But I didn't want it to become public."
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Preferable to a long and torturous death.

Long and torturous...lets forget about the last word for a second. If you torture someone mentally, psychologically, or physically over a long period of time...that person will, at the end, have prefered a quick and relatively painless death.

Think about the source of that particular quote.
Now...think about Abu Garab

a quick end better than long torture
a beheading better than what happened at Abu Garab

You catching any of this?

What those 6 fuckers in the hoods did to poor Berg was morally better than what UK and USA troops were doing in Iraq.
 
Some Detainees were killed (film to come??) .If we are seeing all "this" on camera whats going on when the Cameras aren't present.
 
Bish these animals have nothing to do with IRAQ, Theyre only affiliation is that they were probebly trained there. they are nothing but extremest following orders from a lunatic. They have no morals. They are strictly mercineries for hire.
 
A.B.Normal said:
Some Detainees were killed (film to come??) .If we are seeing all "this" on camera whats going on when the Cameras aren't present.
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25 detainees out of 40,000 have died and half of those were natural causes.
Hopefully you are not eluding to our side being guilty of mass executions?
 
Thulsa Doom said:
I see massive hypocrasy. What else was I supposed to see? Oh and last time I checked no Iraqis flew any planes into the world trade center. Apparently they were too busy being repressed by Sadam Hussein in places like Abu Gurab...

The Gonz theory of damage control: If we fuck up well too bad. Two wrongs make a right. Until we say otherwise. Class dismissed.
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change that 2 wrongs to say we are right and youll have it.
 
samcurry said:
Bish these animals have nothing to do with IRAQ, Theyre only affiliation is that they were probebly trained there. they are nothing but extremest following orders from a lunatic. They have no morals. They are strictly mercineries for hire.
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Their source isn't what's on the plate, but their methods are.

I hate to do this, because I can almost see the bad karma come in, but...

Some American soldiers do not want to be in Iraq...they joined the miltary for the paycheck (for the money). Some have gone AWOL because of it... some of these soldiers are there for purely mercenary reasons.

Some people think that the war itself is lunacy, and the act of a lunatic hiding his real reasons for beginning this war. The soldiers in Iraq have no choice BUT to follow those orders.

Morality is relative.

Sam - I know how you feel...I am not bullshitting you here. If this had been my brother in law coming in from Afghanistan in 2 body-bags...I'd be all over this board like napalm.

You just seem to be taking this argument, or being led, in the wrong direction.
You're pissed off that a non-combattant got beheaded, taped on video...and all of this done to highlight what happened in Abu Gharab. Fine!

Don't say that this is worst, or less humane than what's happened in Abu Ghairib... don't compare it at all. Apples and oranges.

It was bad...very bad...and worst because it happened to a non-combattant. Someone who truly was there to help Iraq. 'nuff said
 
Winky said:
25 detainees out of 40,000 have died and half of those were natural causes.
Hopefully you are not eluding to our side being guilty of mass executions?
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And who are you believing that half were natural causes.The fact that "any"(twelve according to your #s)were murdered while in Coalition custody means that those who "only" suffered bruises and nudity may have believed they were next ,they not only suffered bruises and nudity but the belief they were not going to remain alive and in many cases without their families ever knowing what happened. Did you read the Red Cross report I linked to .
 
I guess here is the real question of the day. Alot of us are up in arms that US soldiers are not following geneva convention guidelines, but most of what im hearing here is that these radicals are morally justified because of what pictures were taken by foolish MP's. How does that make any sense?
I just dont get how anyone could defend in any sense of the word people cutting off the head of a fellow human being and waving it in front of a camera for the world to see and tell us there is more to come.
 
samcurry said:
, but most of what im hearing here is that these radicals are morally justified because of what pictures were taken by foolish MP's. How does that make any sense?


I just dont get how anyone could defend in any sense of the word people cutting off the head of a fellow human being and waving it in front of a camera for the world to see and tell us there is more to come.
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1) Morally justified? Nope... just less immoral. The lesser of two evils.

2) Not trying to defend their actions...just trying to temper your argument for nuking Iraq.
 
This, and the Abu Ghraib thread, can lead us off into so many directions. So many things are being written that are false or misleading.

In the end it all comes down to the fact that this is war & war is hell.
 
Gonz said:
This, and the Abu Ghraib thread, can lead us off into so many directions. So many things are being written that are false or misleading.

In the end it all comes down to the fact that this is war & war is hell.
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...and all's fair in love and war. Thus...what happened here was fair play?
 
A.B.Normal said:
Did you read the Red Cross report I linked to .
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There was a link?

So by that means of deductive reasoning we
have summarily executed 12 Iraq's?
Guess that video should be shown.
 
nah i said after that comment for what should really be done.
actually what i think we should do is pull ALL troops out of that whole region. Tell the tree huggers here in the states if we want to survive then we use our own resourses and tell The rest of the world settle there own problems we dont care anymore.
 
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