Nick Berg

[Gato_Solo]

You believe America holds the moral high ground and I say we are no more (or less) moral than dozens of other nations. It's that attitude of "we're better than you that alienates so many. It's just as offensive in a nation as it is in an individual (and it really pisses me off in individuals).

 

[Gato_Solo]

(CNN) -- Three Arab states -- Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates --- are condemning the beheading of American Nicholas Berg by his Iraqi captors, shown in a video that appeared on an Islamist Web site.

"There is no doubt that killing detainees and mutilating the remains of the dead are acts which are condemned by all religions and contrary to the morals of all nations and peoples," Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar bin Sultan said in a statement released Wednesday.

"The Al-Zarqawi group is a criminal, deviant and un-Islamic group, allied with bin Laden and the criminals of Al Qaeda who are killing even Muslims and Arabs for no reason.

So much for complacency... Sorry Gonz

 

[The Other One]

So...kill all Muslims, even though most Muslims don't consider this a Jihad... It will become a Jihad the moment that you claim that you are waging war against their religion. Then, in defending their religion, they will declare a Jihad.

Don't kill all Muslims, just the ones causing the death and destruction coming out of a relatively small area in Iraq--the Suni Triangle.

What does the Arabic word "jihad" mean?
Jihad is "holy war." Or, more precisely: It means the legal, compulsory, communal effort to expand the territories ruled by Muslims at the expense of territories ruled by non-Muslims.

The purpose of jihad, in other words, is not directly to spread the Islamic faith but to extend sovereign Muslim power (faith, of course, often follows the flag). Jihad is thus unabashedly offensive in nature, with the eventual goal of achieving Muslim dominion over the entire globe.

Jihad in the sense of territorial expansion has always been a central aspect of Muslim life. That's how Muslims came to rule much of the Arabian Peninsula by the time of the Prophet Muhammad's death in 632. It's how, a century later, Muslims had conquered a region from Afghanistan to Spain. Subsequently, jihad spurred and justified Muslim conquests of such territories as India, Sudan, Anatolia, and the Balkans.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/990

 

[MrBishop]

Don't kill all Muslims, just the ones causing the death and destruction coming out of a relatively small area in Iraq--the Suni Triangle.


http://www.danielpipes.org/article/990

This term has never been translated by Muslims to mean holy war. Instead, it means to struggle or exert oneself to his or her utmost potential. In Islam, there are two levels of jihad. The greater jihad most often refers to the inner struggle against evil within oneself with the goal of self-improvement for the betterment of one's community and the world as a whole. The lesser jihad refers to the struggle on the battlefield in self-defense if Muslims have been attacked and their right to practice their faith has been aggressively taken away. " Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love the transgressors" (Qur'an 2:190). This is an unequivocal statement that only self-defense makes war permissible for Muslims and the goals of war cannot be worldly gain.

 

[Winky]

So they are fully within their rights
no wait not by what you've typed
no wait it's the religion of peace
Guess some folks are NOT confused on this issue
and those that are need to buy a clue.
This war is going to go on for years and years and years.

 

[Squiggy]

Just heard a news blurb that the FBI had been tracking Nick Berg for a while and there are ties between him and one of the 9/11 terrorists...Sounds like this could get ugly...

 

[catocom]

The press was kinda hinting that there was something more to this story from the start.
I think though that noone wanted to put a negative light on such
a delicate matter at the time.

I couldn't really tell from the video, if Berg looked like he'd been drugged,
and/or acting like he simpathized, or what there.

I think I'd have been flip-flopping like a fish on a sunny beach.

I really hope it doesn't come out that ugly.

 

[Squiggy]

I kinda got a waft of something when i read about his arrest. he had said the reason he was in that area was to find his inlaws...

 

[BeardofPants]

I'd give you karma for that, but I'm not whoring it around enough.

 

[Squiggy]

Why does the news sensationalize things they shouldn't? The TV blurb for this would make you think Berg had been involved with 9/11. Turns out to be virtually insignificant....

Speaking to reporters outside his home in West Chester, Pa., Berg's father, Michael, said Thursday that his son was investigated by the FBI over contact he had with a terrorism suspect while he was a student at the University of Oklahoma.

A senior law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Berg volunteered information about the 2002 investigation when he was detained in Iraq. The official said that an e-mail address traced to Berg had been used by an unidentified individual with purported connections to terrorism.

The investigation showed that Berg had never met the suspect individual and had not given the e-mail address to that person. Investigators concluded that Berg's e-mail address had been spread among dozens of people with links to the university.

The suspect individual appears to have been acquainted with Moussaoui, an al-Qaida adherent now in federal custody and awaiting trial on conspiracy charges stemming from the Sept. 11 attacks, the official said.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Why does the news sensationalize things they shouldn't? The TV blurb for this would make you think Berg had been involved with 9/11. Turns out to be virtually insignificant....

Bread and Circuses... "Baa...baa..."

 

[freako104]

So you're saying that, no mater what you do, if your morals allow it, then it shouldn't bother anyone else? Unrealistic and foolish. Why? Because most people actually have a moral compass, and most people tend to agree in what is right and what is wrong. Only the fringe actually have no moral compass...those that think that they are either above everyone else, or don't care about anyone else. Sorry Eric, but you're on your own in this one. Every civilization in the world has almost the same moral code. The only differences are the treatment of women, the treatment of children, or the treatment of animals. We're not talking rocket science here. Murder, rape, robbery, and just about every other crime in the criminal code are the same world-wide. That's why it most decidedly is not relative. I'm sure you'll go through and post some ridiculous laws now, but if those ridiculous laws are the only things you can come up with, then you're on the wrong track.

while Ill agree that murder and rape are awful acts and Id want the perpetrators killed, my own feeling is if it hurts none do as you wish. and what the fuck are you talking about posting odd laws?

 

[Gato_Solo]

while Ill agree that murder and rape are awful acts and Id want the perpetrators killed, my own feeling is if it hurts none do as you wish. and what the fuck are you talking about posting odd laws?

Sometimes you post odd laws when trying to make a point. Such as the law that permits beating ones spouse as long as the object is no wider than your thumb.

Back to what you are saying about what is right and what is wrong. That is a 'moral compass'. Usually, the majority of the people actually have one. That's why, worldwide, most basic laws are exactly the same. Note the word basic. The other laws written beyond those basic laws and the punishments that go with all laws are what actually defines the culture of the country. That's what gives people the 'right' to judge your/my/their actions as moral or immoral.

 

[The Other One]

Why does the news sensationalize things they shouldn't?

Seems pretty bizarre to me:

In the interview from outside his home in West Chester, Pennsylvania, a seething Michael Berg also said his 26-year-old son, a civilian contractor, probably would have felt positive, even about his executioners, until the last minute.
"I am sure that he only saw the good in his captors until the last second of his life," Berg said. "They did not know what they were doing. They killed their best friend."

A pretty gracious comment to the animals who slaughtered his son, don't you think?

Berg's mother, Suzanne Berg, said her son was in Iraq to help rebuild communication antennas.
"He had this idea that he could help rebuild the infrastructure," she said.
Michael Berg described himself as fervently anti-war, but said his son disagreed with him.
"He was a Bush supporter," Berg said. "He looked at it as bringing democracy to a country that didn't have it."

The sad story gets stranger:

Berg's body was found Saturday in Baghdad. Two e-mails he sent to his family and friends show he traveled widely and unguarded throughout Iraq, an unsafe practice rarely done by Westerners.

Shortly before Berg's disappearance, he was warned by the FBI that Iraq was too volatile a place for unprotected American civilians and that he could be harmed, a senior FBI official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Wednesday.

Iraqi police arrested Berg in Mosul on March 24 because local authorities believed he may have been involved in "suspicious activities," Senor said. He refused to elaborate, except to confirm that the Americans were aware Berg was in custody.

"U.S. authorities were notified," he said. "The FBI visited Mr. Berg on three occasions and determined that he was not involved with any criminal or terrorist activity."

Berg was released April 6 and "was advised to leave the country," Senor added. Instead, Berg checked into the Baghdad hotel.

An employee described Berg as a "nice guy" who "always smiled and said hello," unlike other foreign guests. "Once he told me, 'I'd like to learn Arabic.'"

On April 10, four days after Berg was released from an Iraqi prison, an American diplomat offered to put him on a flight to Jordan, State Department spokeswoman Kelly Shannon said.

Berg's father, Michael Berg, said that although his son wanted to leave Iraq, he refused the flight offer because he thought the travel to the airport would be too dangerous. Attacks had taken place in the areas his son would need to drive through, Michael Berg said.

Poor man.

http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/403226|top|05-13-2004::22:46|reuters.html
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/1693543.php
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119810,00.html

 

[Sharky]

Oregon DJs Ousted for Mocking Berg Beheading

6:30 PM EDT 14 May 04

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Two Portland, Oregon, DJs were fired for making jokes as they aired a recording of American Nick Berg's beheading in Iraq (news - web sites), station management said on Friday, calling their actions "beyond comprehension."

The DJs, named only by their on-air personas "Marconi" and "Tiny," and their producer were fired from their morning show on Thursday after the pair laughed and played background music while repeatedly airing Berg's screams as militant Islamists decapitated him.

"This was way over the line, insensitive and repulsive, by anyone's measure," said Clark Ryan, vice president for FM operations of Entercom Communications Corp. in Portland, where the network runs five FM stations.

Ryan said the station received numerous complaints from "appalled" listeners.

Marconi apologized on Friday in an audio recording posted on his personal web site, saying he had made himself sick with his "stupid" actions.

"I say a lot of stupid things on the radio, but this was the most inappropriate thing that I've ever done and I am very ashamed of myself for doing it," the DJ said.

Marconi and his partner Tiny were known for crude jokes and had been reprimanded before, but the station deemed their "edgy" humor necessary to reach young adult listeners.

Berg's killers released a grisly video of the execution with one of the five masked men reading a statement urging Muslims to seek revenge for Iraqi prisoners abused by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison.

"There are times in life when you wish you could take something back that you did. This for me was one of those times," Marconi said.

 

[Gonz]

Maybe they can intern for Air America (some day they may even get paid)

 

[Squiggy]

Stupidity like that could earn them a cabinet position in the Bush whitehouse...

 

[Winky]

Or jobs as Teddy Kennedy’s speechwriters!

 

[The Other One]

" Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love the transgressors" (Qur'an 2:190). This is an unequivocal statement that only self-defense makes war permissible for Muslims and the goals of war cannot be worldly gain.

Noble Qur’an 2:190 Footnote: “Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.”

Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.’”

Bukhari:V1B2N25 “Allah’s Apostle was asked, ‘What is the best deed?’ He replied, ‘To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.’ The questioner then asked, ‘What is the next best in goodness?’ He replied, ‘To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah's Cause.’”

Bukhari:V4B52N50 “The Prophet said, ‘A single endeavor of fighting in Allah’s Cause is better than the world and whatever is in it.’”

Qur’an 9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”

Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an 9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”

Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”

Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Ishaq:325 “Muslims, fight in Allah’s Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.”

Qur’an 8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”

Qur’an 9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.”

Ishaq:300 “I am fighting in Allah’s service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah’s war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good.”

Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”

Qur’an 8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

Qur’an 47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”

Ishaq:595 “The Apostle said, ‘Get him away from me and cut off his tongue.””

Ishaq:312 “Umar said to the Apostle, ‘Let me pull out Suhayl’s two front teeth. That way his tongue will stick out and he will never be able to speak against you again.’”

Ishaq:204 “‘Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man?’ ‘Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.’”

Ishaq:471 “We are steadfast trusting Him. We have a Prophet by whom we will conquer all men.”

 

[Winky]

Well then we should
A: Be real happy they don't have a military infrastructure.
and
B: Make danged sure they don't get their hands on Nukes