OK so the camels are coming home to roost?

**One add-on. Re: the GVT in place and their part.
If the GVT turned a blind eye to descrimination when it came to who building owners were renting to or refusing to rent to...then they share some of the blame.
 
MrBishop said:
**One add-on. Re: the GVT in place and their part.
If the GVT turned a blind eye to descrimination when it came to who building owners were renting to or refusing to rent to...then they share some of the blame.
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But not to the extent people are placing that blame. It's like swatting a fly with a cannon.
 
MrBishop said:
........'tis a race riot, not a religious one....
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http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/eu.../france.riots/

A church was set ablaze in the southern fishing town of Sete and another in nearby Lens, Pas de Calais
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MrBishop said:
Yes...there were a few videotaped rioters screaming God is Great...Allah Ackbar.
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Large numbers of masked "youths" jumping up and down around burning vehicles shouting "Allah akbar" sends an unmistakable message that even the most indifferent viewer can see.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,383682,00.html

"Nice work people," he writes. "The cops are petrified of us, everything must burn, starting Monday, the operation 'Midnight Sun' starts, tell everyone else, rendezvous for Momo and Abdul in Zone 4 ... jihad Islamia Allah Akhbar."

"You don't really think that we're going to stop now? Are you stupid? It will continue, non-stop. We aren't going to let up. The French won't do anything and soon, we will be in the majority here."
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So this is just about 'civil rights' and any reference to Islam should be ignored?

Beau and Jacques and Valeray are just feeling 'deprived' and they are a little cranky about it?
 
Paris prosecutors opened an inquiry Tuesday into two young bloggers who urged French youths to riot and revolt against the police, a judicial official said.

The youths, a 16-year-old French teen and an 18-year-old with Ghanian nationality, were detained Monday in the Paris region, said the official.

They were to be placed under investigation, a step short of formal charges, for inciting harm to people and property over the Internet, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because French law bars the disclosure of information from ongoing inquiries. Conviction on the charge could carry a sentence of up to five years in prison and a $52,800 fine.

The blog, called "hardcore," was run by the 18-year-old, and the younger teen posted comments on it, the official said. A 14-year-old was also questioned Monday in the southern city of Aix-en-Provence and was released.

During the rioting, bloggers have posted appeals for calm alongside insults targeting police, threats of more violence and warnings that the unrest will feed support for France's anti-immigration extreme right.

One of the blogs was called "sarkodead" — a reference to Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who inflamed passions when he called troublemakers "scum." Both "sarkodead" and "hardcore" were hosted by Skyblog, a branch of the popular Skyrock radio station.

The blogs were taken off line this weekend, and the radio station cooperated with police, judicial officials said.
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Incitors
 
The Other One said:
So this is just about 'civil rights' and any reference to Islam should be ignored?
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Ignored...nope. But you can't lay 100% of the blame on Islam as if this was a religious war or something, which is precisely what is going on here and elsewhere!
 
Gato_Solo said:
Not one bit. The government didn't do anything to stop the flight from the neighborhoods, but that's not the governments job, is it? The government did nothing to stop the cycle of poverty and hopelessness, but, once again, that's not the governments job, is it?

1. The government cannot tell you how, or where, you can live. That is determinied by your economic status.
2. The government cannot tell you what you can, or cannot, do with your future. That is determined by your sense of self respect and your economic status.


That being said, the government is made up by the people, so, in a small way, you are correct, but the government is also restricted in its functioning by the majority that placed it into power...I hate tangents...


Bottom line, it wasn't the government that failed in this case. It was the population of France, and their attitude towards immigrants.
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The problem with saying the population makes up the government is that we all know that is essentially the idea, but in reality it's wrong. Government policy is dictated by factors other than what is necessarily best for the population of the nation or the world at large, and governments can make short-sighted decisions (like creating ghettos in the suburbs of French towns and cities) to take care of a problem that the people largely can have no tangible say in.

Additionally, it's ridiculous to suggest that people should remain in areas where poor people are being boxed in when the obvious result will be an increase in crime and the areas themselves suffer from a lack of inward investment, employment and infrastructure. Why shouldn't they leave an area, if it is consigned to be a shanty town by the government?

Osama Bin Laden often uses the justification for targetting Western civilians that they are the people who elected the governments who interfere in the Middle East.
 
bring in crap people and all you do is crap up yer country

the French have made a fatal mistake now they can simply
reap the benefits of their error for decades to come
 
Residents gathered at the school gate, demanding that the army be deployed or suggesting that citizens band together to protect their neighborhoods.
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TOO's linky.

Now...THIS could get ugly.
 
Bobby Hogg said:
The problem with saying the population makes up the government is that we all know that is essentially the idea, but in reality it's wrong. Government policy is dictated by factors other than what is necessarily best for the population of the nation or the world at large, and governments can make short-sighted decisions (like creating ghettos in the suburbs of French towns and cities) to take care of a problem that the people largely can have no tangible say in.
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Those 'ghettos', as you call them, didn't become that way until after the local, non-immigrant population left to get away from the new people.

BH said:
Additionally, it's ridiculous to suggest that people should remain in areas where poor people are being boxed in when the obvious result will be an increase in crime and the areas themselves suffer from a lack of inward investment, employment and infrastructure. Why shouldn't they leave an area, if it is consigned to be a shanty town by the government?
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Guess that one sailed over your head. I'll try one more time...

The crime rate goes up when the property values go down. This is a fact.
The property rates go down when people value their property less...ie the first black family moves into the neighborhood.
The first family to leave will sell their property for less than market value simply to get away from the black family...As a result, an even poorer family now moves in, causing another family to sell short...etc, etc, etc...so how is this the governments fault? The poor people moved there because it was cheaper. The moderate families moved out, out of either fear or prejudice or both. This is not the fault of the government. It's the fault of the people who lived there originally being intolerant.

BH said:
Osama Bin Laden often uses the justification for targetting Western civilians that they are the people who elected the governments who interfere in the Middle East.
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And we all know what a voice of reason he is. :rolleyes:
 
Gonz said:
Finally, a worthwhile response.
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Vigilantism is rarely if ever worthwhile.

For one thing, it would turn the anger of the rioters from the GVT and police towards the individuals in the neighbourhood. Self-defence.

12 nights of rioting and only 1 death. That will change if/when the population in those neighbourhoods take pitchforks and shotguns to hand to defend themselves.
 
MrBishop said:
Vigilantism
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Why must you assume self-protection is vigilantism? Arming myself for the protection of my family, is hardly hunting down the muslim neighbor kid.
 
Arm the French population and let em fight it out!

no wait they frenchies are pansies and would lose AGAIN heh heh
 
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
 
The Other One said:
Kinda speaks for itself, ya think?
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They were doing the same in Belfast in September. They were also shooting at police. No worldwide news coverage, I expect, because everyone's used to it happening here.
 
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