Sickening

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
The argument depends on the merits.

A "woman" is ready for sex & pregnancy at a very early age. The community standards set the boundries.

A 16 year old Mexican girl is probably a lot more suited to marriage & children than 22 year old American from Chicago, though a 14 year old Chicago girl is more likely to become pregnant, sans marriage & commitment to the father & nobody will notice.

Community standards & culture.
 

Inkara1

Well-Known Member
The thing about that dropping babies 50 feet... from reading just what was posted, it seems that 500 years of tradition say the kid won't get hurt.
 

2minkey

bootlicker
The argument depends on the merits.

A "woman" is ready for sex & pregnancy at a very early age. The community standards set the boundries.

A 16 year old Mexican girl is probably a lot more suited to marriage & children than 22 year old American from Chicago, though a 14 year old Chicago girl is more likely to become pregnant, sans marriage & commitment to the father & nobody will notice.

Community standards & culture.

yep them mexicans and urbanites are great at breeding heh? you so funny.

right on. so, then, when a tribal guy in the south amazon places an unwanted newborn on its back, places a stick across its neck, jumps and comes down with one foot on each side of the stick...

community standards. culture. we should applaud their indigenous ways. yay team.

relativism. the moral mechanism of those too weak to stand up and believe in something. :dance:
 

Cerise

Well-Known Member
jackson_l.jpg
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
minkey, I've got about 6 years worth of beliefs & opinions on this board. I'm hardly at a loss for absolutes.
 

2minkey

bootlicker
allright then bring it into play for this specific issue...

and i mean this in all seriousness. not ideological convenience.

bring it home, sugarplum.

young kiddies should not be getting pigged. all there is to it.

not to be super_drama... and *no disrespect intended* but at what point is yer daughter ready?

because i don't think that question is so easy. or so relative.

they do need some guidance, right? should they be as loose as we_were?

though i suppose if one were raised in an environment where one simply was supposed to reprorduce for the sake of... somethin...

nah, that ain't you or me.

that's something else. that's bloody caveman.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
not to be super_drama... and *no disrespect intended* but at what point is yer daughter ready?

ready for sex and to conceive or prepared for life?

My daughter? As an American, about 24.

As a Honduran sugar farmer...16

As a British Spy?...it's up to her.

As a Nigerian coconut picker....13.

As a Afghani camel herder...if she's born she's ready?


It is relative. It does matter what the culture operates. Americans used to operate on a grander scheme than now. The idea that waiting until marriage at least kept the spread of STD's & unwanted pregnancies limited. Todays standard is the same as a dog...if we can rut, let's do it.

Regarding the fools in Texas, there were all kinds of rumors & mis-information about the last farm to get invaded by the US government. Look at the outcome. Rinse & repeat. They had no evidence until someone broke the law & made a false claim. That person has a history of this kind of action & a reported dislike of the religious nuts.

We are actually arguing apples & oranges. On one hand, the first amendment rights being violated. The other is the purported abuse of children. However, there was little factual evidence to support the claims of abuse. At this point, we don't know what, or whom, to believe.
 

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
'Nother one


Former follower: Sect leader wanted to sleep with teenagers


CLAYTON, N.M. - For 16 years, he followed a man who calls himself Michael, finally settling along with other families on a former ranch in a remote corner of New Mexico.

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There were red flags along the way, but John Sayer didn't break away from the apocalyptic church until late 2005.

Michael "said God told him that he was supposed to sleep with seven virgins," recalled Sayer, 36. Two were to be Sayer's daughters, then 14 and 15.

"I just told him no. ... I'm not in agreement. I don't see it's right," Sayer said.

Sayer, his wife and daughters left the compound, although his daughters returned. His youngest was still living there when she was removed by the state Children, Youth and Families Department last week, Sayer said.

Two girls and one boy, all under 18, were taken from the compound amid allegations of inappropriate contact between minors and the sect's 66-year-old leader. State officials are investigating. Sayer said he's spoken with his daughter by phone, but has been advised not to discuss the state custody case.

State District Judge John Paternoster has issued a gag order. Romaine Serna, a spokeswoman for the Children, Youth and Families Department, said she could not discuss the custody status of the three children.

Sayer said Michael Travesser — whose real name is Wayne Bent — did sleep with seven virgins, but all were over 18 and did not include his daughters.

However, Sayer said his daughters "lay naked" with Michael, although they said no sex was involved. He said he doubts his daughters were molested, but "anything's possible."

Bent, who said God anointed him Messiah in July 2000, wrote in a posting Wednesday on the church's Web site: "There was never any child molestation, or adult molestation by anyone, including myself. There has never been `sex with minors' or anything remotely approaching that."

District Attorney Donald Gallegos said Thursday the investigation stemmed from a tip.

"I believe it was one of the parents — who no longer are at the compound — had a concern that led to the investigation by the department, which later involved the removal of the children," he said.

Sayer's younger daughter, using the name "Healed," wrote in a December 2007 posting on the church's Web site: "Michael DID NOT molest me, and my laying with him was not sexual in any way, either. Michael sacrificed himself and was willing to look like a pedophile so that I might be bonded inseparably to the Father in Heaven."

Bent's Lord Our Righteousness Church settled in 2000 in northeastern New Mexico near the Colorado line, where flatter ranch land gives way to tree-studded rock outcroppings. Families in the compound live in recreational vehicles, tents and modular buildings scattered across the property.



Sects = sex it seems.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
The hoaxer has been arrested.

http://www.9news.com/news/top-article.aspx?storyid=90138

Woman arrested in Colorado Springs questioned by Texas Rangers

written by: Jace Larson , Investigative Reporter
and Kyle Clark , Reporter
posted by: Sara Gandy , Web Producer
updated by: Colleen Locke , Producer

COLORADO SPRINGS - The Texas Department of Public Safety expects to have new information Friday afternoon on a woman arrested in Colorado Springs who may have a connection with a raid on a religious compound in western Texas.

According to a release from the city of Colorado Springs, police arrested 33-year-old Rozita Swinton at her home on Wednesday on a charge of false reporting to authorities, a misdemeanor. The incident she was arrested for happened in February. Swinton was taken to the El Paso County Criminal Justice Center.

According to a news release from Colorado Springs, the Texas Rangers were in Colorado Springs as part of their investigation involving the compound in Texas.

Texas Rangers have not confirmed that they are investigating Swinton.

"We're not confirming that the local arrest is related to the Ranger's investigation of the FLDS property," said Lisa Block, Texas Ranger's spokeswoman. FLDS is an acronym for The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Texas Department of Family and Protective Services spokeswoman Shari Pulliam told 9Wants to Know Friday that she believes the girl claiming to be an abused 16 year old is among the more than 400 children removed from the FLDS property.

"We feel like she probably is here and that during the course of the investigation we will be able to locate her," said Pulliam.

Pulliam said that her office was not able to trace the number of the person calling with allegations of abuse because the calls were made to a domestic violence shelter.

The Colorado Springs Police Department says it cannot discuss the Texas case.

Texas authorities needed a criminal complaint before they could get a warrant to search the compound. They got it when they claimed a 16-year-old girl named Sarah called them for help, saying she was inside the ranch, pregnant and scared of her abusive 50-year-old husband.

One former FLDS member, Flora Jessop, of Phoenix, who has been an outspoken critic of polygamist practices, says she thinks she may have talked to Swinton on the phone, with Swinton claiming to be Sarah's twin sister. Jessop claims to have hours of tapes of the conversations with Swinton and says they began before the raid on March 30.

Jessop said the caller also talked about alleged abuse at property owned by FLDS members in Colorado City, Arizona. Colorado City is home to a large number of FLDS members.

Jessop says the woman she believes is Rozita Swinton called again Thursday morning after Swinton bailed out of the El Paso County Jail.

"I did get her to admit to me her name was Rose," Jessop said.

The affidavit for the case in Colorado Springs has been sealed, but Jessop says police arrested Swinton for making false calls somewhere in Colorado, claiming to be an abused child.

9NEWS has learned that Swinton was arrested in Castle Rock two years ago for making a false report.

(Copyright KUSA*TV, All Rights Reserved)
 

Inkara1

Well-Known Member
ALLEGED hoaxer... if you don't want the FLDS sect convicted before the court does so, you need to be fair to this woman, too.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
ALLEGED hoaxer... if you don't want the FLDS sect convicted before the court does so, you need to be fair to this woman, too.

Nope. I don't have to use the word "alleged" on someone who is a convicted hoaxer.

Swinton pleaded guilty to misdemeanor false reporting in a 2005 case out of Castle Rock, Colo.; a one-year sentence was deferred. She had claimed in phone calls to be a 16-year-old named Jessica who was suicidal after giving birth; there was no baby.

She is alleged to be guilty of this:

Swinton was arrested April 16 and later released on a misdemeanor charge of false reporting in a February case in Colorado Springs with no known ties to the raid in west Texas. She's accused of posing as a teenager named "Jennifer" and falsely claiming in a 911 call that her father had locked her in her basement for days, the arrest warrant affidavit released Wednesday said.

and this:

The warrant also links Swinton to calls made throughout October from a "Dana Anderson." The caller claimed to be a young woman being abused by her pastor at Colorado Springs' New Life Church, and later as a 13-year-old student at Liberty High School who said she was being drugged and sexually abused by her father.

So she has three allegations and one conviction as a hoaxer and, if charged, the FLDS raid would make the fourth allegation. She still has a conviction and thus she is a hoaxer; no allegation required.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080503/D90E1EFO1.html

Warrant dropped against man named in polygamist retreat raid

May 3, 3:38 AM (ET)

ELDORADO, Texas (AP) - An arrest warrant has been dropped for a man thought to be the husband of a teenage girl whose report of abuse triggered a raid on a polygamous sect's Texas compound, authorities said Friday.

A Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman would not say why the warrant was dropped for Dale E. Barlow, 50, who lives in Colorado City, Ariz. Barlow has denied knowing the 16-year-old girl who called a crisis center.

The girl reported that she was a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and that she was beaten and raped at the sect's Eldorado ranch.

An investigation led to the April 3 raid, in which state welfare workers took 463 children living at the Yearning For Zion Ranch. A boy was born to one of the sect's mothers Tuesday; he and the other children remain in state custody.

Authorities have not located the 16-year-old girl and are investigating the source of the call.

Public Safety spokesman Tom Vinger would not say when the warrant for Barlow was dropped, only that "it is no longer active."

Rob Parker, an FLDS spokesman, said the dropped warrant shows the weakness of the state's case against residents of the ranch.

"I think that's just one more piece of evidence that the whole basis on which this raid was premised was unfounded and was inadequately checked out, to the formulation of what basically amounted to an army that went in there and took their children," Parker said.

The phone number used to call the crisis center is the same one once used by a Colorado woman, identified as 33-year-old Rozita Swinton of Colorado Springs, accused of making previous false reports of abuse.

Investigators have not said whether Swinton made the call to Texas authorities, though Vinger said she is "still considered a person of interest."

"There is an investigation centering on that," Vinger said. "We have quite a bit of evidence that still needs to be analyzed."

A judge has ruled that children removed from the ranch should stay in state custody until all can have a hearing.

Child welfare officials told the judge the children were living in an authoritarian environment that left girls at risk of sexual abuse and raised boys to become sexual perpetrators.

The FLDS is a group that splintered from the Mormon Church, which does not recognize the sect and disavows polygamy.

In Utah, members of the polygamous church have asked the state's governor to intervene in its fight with Texas authorities over the custody the children.

A letter written by FLDS elder Willie Jessop says Texas officials are rejecting Utah-issued birth certificates and other documents as "fake."

The letter asks Gov. Jon Huntsman to exercise his executive authority to assist in protecting the civil rights of native Utahns and FLDS members. FLDS parents claim they have been denied their due process by the Texas courts.

"Without your leadership and personal intervention in this matter, the parental rights of every Utah family is at risk," Jessop wrote.

Huntsman spokeswoman Lisa Roskelly said the governor has been in contact with Jessop and was reviewing his request.
 

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
If one were savvy to the legal process, one would realize that dropping a warrant does not preclude taking out a new one with a different day of infraction on it, or an amended charge, or any other factual variance covered therein being alleged. Guess one isn't overly savvy. One could learn a bit from Law & Order reruns. Not the best source, but ya gotta start slow with some.

An alleged hoaxer isn't alleged because she was convicted of it before. But an alleged sex offender with a sex offense against a minor conviction on his record is still alleged. Folks, this is why we never see black robes in certain places, just blue vests. Flawed logic.

We ain't heard all the shoes drop here. Believe it.
 

spike

New Member
ready for sex and to conceive or prepared for life?

My daughter? As an American, about 24.

As a Honduran sugar farmer...16

As a British Spy?...it's up to her.

As a Nigerian coconut picker....13.

As a Afghani camel herder...if she's born she's ready?

Everybody ignore the laws. We'll just go by Gonz's opinion on sex with children. :laugh;



On one hand, the first amendment rights being violated. The other is the purported abuse of children. However, there was little factual evidence to support the claims of abuse. At this point, we don't know what, or whom, to believe.

I think you mean purported first amendment rights violations and lots of evidence of child abuse.
 

spike

New Member
Those whose livlihood depends on their finding abuse ... will.

Nope, if there's no abuse their job is easier. But it's odd that you would assume the worst about them while making excuse after excuse for those who have a mountain of evidence pointing to them being child abusers and pedophiles.
 
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