Smoking???

Squiggy

ThunderDick
OK..I'm finding this part interesting because i've spent much of my life with asphalt racecars. And I know firsthand that alcohol burning racecars have a much more aggressive and irritating exhaust fume than do the gas burners...I realize that methanol is water based, but when it burns it will bring tears to your eyes in no time.
 

markjs

Banned
Squiggy said:
OK..I'm finding this part interesting because i've spent much of my life with asphalt racecars. And I know firsthand that alcohol burning racecars have a much more aggressive and irritating exhaust fume than do the gas burners...I realize that methanol is water based, but when it burns it will bring tears to your eyes in no time.

Well to be honest I don't know all the details...I could look them up, but I do know that Brazil uses an alcohol based fuel that burns a lot cleaner than gasoline.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Per pound of fuel burned, coal emits more than twice the amount of carbon dioxide as does propane.

Which makes it a cleaner fuel...not a clean one.
Propane, or liquefied petroleum gas, is a by-product of petroleum refining and natural gas production.

Quit making gasoline & what happens?
 

Squiggy

ThunderDick
I believe they may be using the typical gasohol blend which does decrease the toxic emmissons. If you run straight methanol, it takes a whole lot more fuel to produce the power.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
I would, much to marks chagrin, be incredibly happy with clean engines. Just as soon as one is available & relatively inexpensive, I'll buy one. Until then, let's go drill Anwar.

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to the thread starter for taking over his thread. We're sorry, ...(lemme look)...oh hell it's BCD...never mind. :D
 

markjs

Banned
Gonz said:
I would, much to marks chagrin, be incredibly happy with clean engines. Just as soon as one is available & relatively inexpensive, I'll buy one. Until then, let's go drill Anwar.

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to the thread starter for taking over his thread. We're sorry, ...(lemme look)...oh hell it's BCD...never mind. :D

Here's an interesting read about Brazil....seems I was fed some wrong information but there is a very intersting solution here in this article.

http://www.tierramerica.org/english/2003/0825/iacentos.shtml
 

Squiggy

ThunderDick
Propane has come a long way Gonz. And its much cleaner. We really don't need to DRILL anywhere. We need to work on alternatives.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Squiggy, if we drill in Anwar or (my preference) the Gulf of Mexico, that means we're less dependent on OPEC, especially Saudi Arabia.

There is no cheaper, more abundant, more powerful source of fuel than dead dinosaurs. It has serious drawbacks but don't they all. Several billion for research on hydrogen is a great step forward.
 

Luis G

<i><b>Problemator</b></i>
Staff member
Smoking is stupid.

Quit 3 years ago, and now i can't stand it, I wish our goverment made it illegal to smoke in public areas.
 

AnomalousEntity

New Member
Gonz said:
Where to start???

Evil?? C'mon. It doesn't murder. It doesn't fly planes into buildings. It doesn't bake Jews. It isn't the devil incarnate. Nasty, smelly, filthy...maybe. Not evil.

Outlawed in public places? It is, mostly. And why? I don't like your choice of after shave. It makes me wanna vomit green Exorcist" stuff. So what, I can walk away from you. You, by the same token can walk away also. People should not be subjected to things they don't like. That fairly well means don't leave your house.

Outlawed in homes? Sorry bud, you can take my cigarettes if you can get past my .44. Minors have been subjected to this, and far far worse & never had a scar. Stay out of my house & stay away from my kids. It's none of your business. Don't like it? Don't do it.







My opinion on smoking: It sucks. It smells. It's expensive. It's stupid. and most of all IT'S LEGAL.



Well my doctor gauranteed that growing up around a chain smoking mother is the reason for my Reactive Airway Disease (asthma). When the weather turns cool, the cold air feels like its setting my lungs on fire. If I take deep breaths I begin coughing up copious amounts of thick (and difficult to clear) mucuous which I usually cant get up and it sits in my lungs, bacteria get trapped in there, and I wind up with bronchitis 2 or 3 times a year (and I had pneumonia last year).

To put it another way, when I excersise heavily and all through the winter (about 5 months here) Its like I have cystic fibrosis.

It doesnt make me feel too great when I realize the maximum life expectancy of a cystic fibrosis victim is about 30 years and then think about all of the scarring I must already have in my lungs from the smoke, the mucuos, and the frequent infections.



So to anyone who says smoking or second hand smoke isnt dangerous.

Let me just say.,.....GO FUCK YOURSELF.
 

Shadowfax

<b>mod cow</b>
started smoking when i was 15...quit after 1 yr for 3 yrs...started again after that, which was stupid.

usually i don't like the smell, but sometimes i actually do..depending on the cigarettes. problem is that i enjoy smoking, which makes it hard to quit. nothing beats a nice cigarette after a dive...those are the best.

of course it isn't healthy and of course i shouldn't smoke, but still i do. if i'm at somebody else's place, and they don't smoke, i don't even ask if they mind if i smoke, since i will always go outside. on other occasions i always ask.
it is MY (bad) habit, and i don't want other people to be forced with my smoke.
 

IDLEchild

Well-Known Member
I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to the thread starter for taking over his thread. We're sorry, ...(lemme look)...oh hell it's BCD...never mind.

*poutes and whimpers in corner while lighting a cool Menthol cig*
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Ask the World Health Organization why they hid their study showing no ill affects from second hand smoke & possible positive affects.

Second-hand Smoke Study Sparks Controversy
By Mike Wendling CNSNews.com London Bureau Chief
May 16, 2003


London (CNSNews.com) - A study about to be published in this week's
British Medical Journal indicates that second-hand smoke doesn't
increase the risk of heart disease or lung cancer, but the
publication and the study's authors have come under attack by
anti-smoking groups.

Two American researchers analyzed data from an American Cancer
Society survey that followed more than 118,000 Californians from
1960 until 1998.

James E. Enstrom, of the University of California at Los Angeles and
Geoffrey C. Kabat of the State University of New York at Stony Brook
concluded that "the results do not support a causal relation between
environmental tobacco smoke (second-hand smoke) and tobacco related
mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect."

"The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and
coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker
than generally believed," the researchers wrote.

The study was roundly condemned by anti-smoking groups including the
American Cancer Society and even by the British Medical Journal's
parent organization, the British Medical Association. They said the
researchers received money from the tobacco industry, a statement
that was confirmed by the journal Friday.

The American Cancer Society (ACS) pointed out what it called several
flaws in the research. The researchers based their study on a small
subset of the original data, the ACS said, and because of the
greater prevalence of smokers in the 60s and 70s, "virtually
everyone was exposed to environmental tobacco smoke."

Smoking opponents also pointed out in the original study, although
the health of the subjects were monitored until 1998, no information
on smoking habits was collected after 1972.

"We are appalled that the tobacco industry has succeeded in giving
visibility to a study with so many problems," Michael J. Thun, ACS
national vice president of epidemiology and surveillance research,
said in a statement.

"The American Cancer Society welcomes thoughtful, independent peer
review of our data. But this study is neither reliable nor
independent," Thun said.

Other studies have indicated that inhaling second-hand smoke on a
regular basis increases the risk of heart disease by about 30
percent. But as the researchers pointed out in their BMJ article,
exposure to second-hand smoke is difficult to measure and such
studies necessarily rely on self-reported data that may or may not
be accurate.

Figures are skewed, researchers said, by former smokers who are
wrongly classified.

"The relation between tobacco-related diseases and environmental
tobacco smoke may be influenced by misclassification of some smokers
as never smokers," the researchers wrote.

However, several British groups agreed with the ACS assessment of
the study. The British Medical Association said that 1,000 people
die every year in the U.K. as a result of passive smoking.

"There is overwhelming evidence, built up over decades, that passive
smoking causes lung cancer and heart disease, as well as triggering
asthma attacks," said Vivienne Nathanson, BMA's head of science and
ethics. "In children, passive smoking increases the risk of
pneumonia, bronchitis, and reduces lung growth, as well as both
causing and worsening asthma."

A spokesman for Action on Smoking and Health said: "We are utterly
surprised as to why the BMJ has published this. It's nothing but a
lobbying tool."

"This is just one study," the spokesman said. "It will do nothing to
change the massive body of evidence that has built up over the
years."

The journal stood by its decision to publish research but editors
turned down interview requests Friday. A spokeswoman said decisions
on publication were made only after "careful consideration and peer
review."

The study, which was available online and will be published in the
BMJ on Saturday, was partially funded by money from the tobacco
industry, the spokeswoman said, but could not provide further
details.

Groups campaigning against further tobacco regulations in Britain
welcomed the research. Smokers' lobby group FOREST said the "jury is
still out" on the effects of second-hand smoke.

"This is typical of the anti-smoking lobby's bullying tactics," said
FOREST director Simon Clark. "They attack not just the authors but
the messenger ... the BMJ is one of the most respected journals in
the world."

Attacks on the study in the U.K. have been led by proponents of a
total ban on smoking in public places like pubs, clubs and
restaurants, a position that Clark said was undermined by the study.

"People who want to ban smoking in public places use passive smoking
as their number one argument," he said. "That's why this study is so
significant."

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.
 

markjs

Banned
Oh man...that is weak....

Firstly as the article said it's one study versus contless others.

Second, the methods used are somewhat suspect.

Thirdly the thing is funded by tobbacco companies.

You are really grabbing at straws aren't you? Do you really believe smoking is harmless?

I suppose you think chewing tobbaco is OK too? Chewing tobbacco very clearly and rapidly causes cancer and that proof is about written in stone. Tobbacco is poison, as I have said, go out and eat 5 packs of smokes and then come back and tell me it's harmless
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
I've shown, several times, that there is no definitive link. There are possible links but not one shred of proof. I think smoking is absurd. It's also as old as mankind. It's a convenient target. Get the facts straight.

This study is 30 years in the making. The WHO did a worldwide study that had the same results. No absolute correlation between second hand smoke & disease.

Chewing tobacco? Never looked into it. Don't know.
 

markjs

Banned
Gonz said:
I've shown, several times, that there is no definitive link. There are possible links but not one shred of proof. I think smoking is absurd. It's also as old as mankind. It's a convenient target. Get the facts straight.

This study is 30 years in the making. The WHO did a worldwide study that had the same results. No absolute correlation between second hand smoke & disease.

Chewing tobacco? Never looked into it. Don't know.

Show me the WHO study.....this article isn't about that...so I've seen no proof the WHO believes there is no harm in second hand smoke.

You have shown only that one study, that many say is suspect, that was funded by big tobbacco, that says only that the correlation between second hand smoke and smoking related disease may be weaker than was previosly thought.
 

markjs

Banned
Heres some evidence to the contrary

http://www.smoke-free.ca/Second-Hand-Smoke/health_kids.htm

http://www.oma.org/phealth/2ndsmoke.htm

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/etsbro.html

http://www.fensende.com/Users/swnymph/refs/smoke.html

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/may97/smoking_5-20.html

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/tobacco/facts/blueribbon/secondHand.html

I could go on with this all day....Point being that hundreds of researchers say its harmful, and a handful say (maybe) not. Therefore the best knowlege we have still says smoking is a danger to everyone around it.
 
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