Somebody doesn't get it

[Gonz]

Jeebus, I don't know what YOU'RE complaining about. In my english class alone, there were 35+, and more than a good handful of them would periodically play up. I can remember one english period just walking out of class because some big fucking scary samoans had locked the teacher in the closet, and were generally being misbehaving so an' sos. I'm surprised I got an A in that class, since the teacher spent most of the time either futilely attempting to get the class to behave, or being heckled by said big scary samoans.

Let the adults not command, demand & get respect & this is the end result.

 

[BeardofPants]

Oz, I'm sure I would have found it funny meself, if the bastards weren't such scary fucks. I'm sure they went on to become rapists.

 

[Oz]

Oz, I'm sure I would have found it funny meself, if the bastards weren't such scary fucks. I'm sure they went on to become rapists.

Damn......yer kinda reminded me of some of the knuckle-draggers we had at our school. Sounds like there were a lil' more dangerous than our crowd

 

[BeardofPants]

*lol* Don't know if my crowd was quite up with your crowd. We only had one axe-murderer, and he was in our drama class (and a scary fuck as well).

 

[ClaireBear]

3 out of 18 kids have ADHD. Bullshit.

ADHD (or "Want of a good smack" as many educationalists are slowly coming to realise!) is much more common in areas of low socia-economic standing and in males... in a school situated within such an area it is very common to have at least one child in each class... sadly I had the short straw... it was "the worst class in the school"

Let the adults not command, demand & get respect & this is the end result.

Hense I believe Britain will start to return to the old values of any authority figure... teacher or policeman having the power to instill a physical reprimand. I can see it happening... Inclusion is not a new concept.. its just that in years gone by those with behavioural problems were stopped in their tracks before it got way out of hand.

I can see us returning to the "botty smacking" but I'm unsure if I could do that to a child... although I have been sorely tempted!

 

[Gonz]

much more common in areas of low socia-economic standing

That's worthy of further review doncha think? I would have to place that, in a spur of the moment realization, in the teachers are scared of the exact children they purport to so care about, poor, underachieving & minority. I could be wrong but that would be a first.

 

[ClaireBear]

That's worthy of further review doncha think? I would have to place that, in a spur of the moment realization, in the teachers are scared of the exact children they purport to so care about, poor, underachieving & minority. I could be wrong but that would be a first.

I don't get your meaning... teacher's aren't scared of deprived children... they are essentially the ones that require help... they are also, through no fault of their own, can be a hindrance to other children's learning, due to their behaviour so as such they can make life very difficult for children, teacher and other parents.

 

[Gonz]

Why are the poor kids more likely to be labeled ADHD? Deprived of what exactly?

 

[paul_valaru]

Why are the poor kids more likely to be labeled ADHD? Deprived of what exactly?

uh-oh sliperry slope ahead, so lets piss everyone off

It could be that the poor kids are more likely too be from homes where they are left to fend for themselves cause the parent(s) have to work longer hours or shift work to pay the bills and they act out against the lack of attention, and get the label.

Or it could be that where the poor kids go to school the teachers aren't paid well, so all the good caring teachers work at private, or at least upscale schools, so the teachers that the poor childern have are quicker to label, get medicated, and the kid is ot of their hair.

ok, I don't beleive either of these, I was poor, and alone, and I didn't act out like that, and I went to a poor school, and had some of the greatest teachers ever.

More than likely, it works like this, you have a poor neiborhood, poor neiborhoods, here at least, are a lot of apr. buildings with many small apartments, so a lot more people in one area than a more affluent area, so the local schools have to take more kids, over crowded classes, overworked teachers, a kid acting out, no time or money to find out if it is ADD, so automatic label

 

[ClaireBear]

Yup! Some good points there...

Also add into the equation a diet rich in E numbers additives and high levels of sugar... due to no time for cooking because of long hours of work...

Or in Blighty more often because they don't know what "good food" is and either can't or won't prepare anything else... as they see convenience and value foods as economic when vegetables and meat from the markets would cost them half as much a week but cost them twice the effort!

And again we're back to the ADHD label... due to convenience... but more often children labled with ADHD are actually ESBD (Emotional Social and behavioural disorder) kids which stems from problems at home... abuse and neglect in the extreme... never being told NO on the other side!

 

[Gonz]

uh-oh sliperry slope ahead, so lets piss everyone off

It could be that the poor kids are more likely too be from homes where they are left to fend for themselves cause the parent(s) have to work longer hours or shift work to pay the bills and they act out against the lack of attention, and get the label.

Or it could be that where the poor kids go to school the teachers aren't paid well, so all the good caring teachers work at private, or at least upscale schools, so the teachers that the poor childern have are quicker to label, get medicated, and the kid is ot of their hair.

ok, I don't beleive either of these, I was poor, and alone, and I didn't act out like that, and I went to a poor school, and had some of the greatest teachers ever.

More than likely, it works like this, you have a poor neiborhood, poor neiborhoods, here at least, are a lot of apr. buildings with many small apartments, so a lot more people in one area than a more affluent area, so the local schools have to take more kids, over crowded classes, overworked teachers, a kid acting out, no time or money to find out if it is ADD, so automatic label

So, what you are implying is teachers are NOT qualified to diagnose ADHD correctly and should stick to their job of teaching and leave the medical/psych stuff to the professionsals??

 

[Gonz]

ESBD (Emotional Social and behavioural disorder)

Damn I hate shrinks & therapists.

Didn't that used to be called RAMBUNCTIOUS? If they were overly rambunctious they were called bad kids & beat down...by the parents.

 

[ClaireBear]

Damn I hate shrinks & therapists.

Didn't that used to be called RAMBUNCTIOUS? If they were overly rambunctious they were called bad kids & beat down...by the parents.

No not rambunctious... they'd be called a "little shit" and if their father didin't give them a good hiding the copper on the beat would have!

Now its all about being PC... innit!

 

[paul_valaru]

So, what you are implying is teachers are NOT qualified to diagnose ADHD correctly and should stick to their job of teaching and leave the medical/psych stuff to the professionsals??

100% I think they should be able to send a kid to the school counsillor, if they suspect, but no diagnoses, it is not in there training, nor boundries to do so.

 

[ClaireBear]

100% I think they should be able to send a kid to the school counsillor, if they suspect, but no diagnoses, it is not in there training, nor boundries to do so.

I have NEVER suggested otherwise... that is normally the procedure but in order to send the child to an educational psychologist for diagnosis you NEED parental consent.. hense the whole...

"Ahhh! Mr and Mrs Whatsit... nice to see you... the thing is we have concerns about your boy... you see he has a tendancy to swing from the light fittings... etc etc etc"

So we get labelled as making a diagnosis and pumping kids full of pills... when all we've done is given a heads up about out of the ordinary behaviour after we have explored all other avenues such as using different behavioural management techniques, making sure the work set is at an appropriate level etc etc to no avail.

 

[paul_valaru]

I have NEVER suggested otherwise... that is normally the procedure but in order to send the child to an educational psychologist for diagnosis you NEED parental consent.. hense the whole...

"Ahhh! Mr and Mrs Whatsit... nice to see you... the thing is we have concerns about your boy... you see he has a tendancy to swing from the light fittings... etc etc etc"

So we get labelled as making a diagnosis and pumping kids full of pills... when all we've done is given a heads up about out of the ordinary behaviour after we have explored all other avenues such as using different behavioural management techniques, making sure the work set is at an appropriate level etc etc to no avail.

I beleive that a teacher should be able to send a kid to the school pro without parental consent, then let the counsillor make the determination, and let THEM contact the parents, saves from the "the teacher just don't like my kid" thing from happening.

Teachers should never even say ritalin, unless it's on a spelling bee

 

[ClaireBear]

I beleive that a teacher should be able to send a kid to the school pro without parental consent, then let the counsillor make the determination, and let THEM contact the parents, saves from the "the teacher just don't like my kid" thing from happening.

Teachers should never even say ritalin, unless it's on a spelling bee

Ahhh.. its different in Britain though... Primary schools (4-11) don't have counsellors and very few Secondary schools... even today don't have them either... infact a counsellor at a Secondary school is often not even qualified!

ADHD and or ESBD is normally detected in primary school where the first port of call for permission before asking for any out of school body for assistance is the parent(s)!

So we do get the "teacher don't like my kid" syndrome... but then any parent with that attitude to a professional merely doing their job and caring for their child usually HAS got an ADHD/ESBD child!

 

[Gonz]

Ahhh.. its different in Britain though... Primary schools (4-11) don't have counsellors and very few Secondary schools... even today don't have them either... infact a counsellor at a Secondary school is often not even qualified!

So, what you are implying is teachers are NOT qualified to diagnose ADHD correctly and should stick to their job of teaching and leave the medical/psych stuff to the professionsals??

 

[paul_valaru]

Ahhh.. its different in Britain though... Primary schools (4-11) don't have counsellors and very few Secondary schools... even today don't have them either... infact a counsellor at a Secondary school is often not even qualified!

ADHD and or ESBD is normally detected in primary school where the first port of call for permission before asking for any out of school body for assistance is the parent(s)!

So we do get the "teacher don't like my kid" syndrome... but then any parent with that attitude to a professional merely doing their job and caring for their child usually HAS got an ADHD/ESBD child!

See that is where I have the problem, seeing a kid swinging from the ceiling is a clue something is wrong, but could be he's just a brat, trying to diagnose something from jsut seeing a kid in a classroom situation cannot be easy to do, i have great respect for teachers on the whole, but hearing ones say "he is this that or the other" I don't get it, the child is one in 30 in the class, you only ever see him/her in that social situation, when the kids lights get dimmed by meds only to realize later the child was gifted, and just bored.

I know you can't change it Claire, it's beyond your control if that is how they do it, I just think the system sucks, here there and elsewhere.

And I think people are ritalin mad.

 

[paul_valaru]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB
Ahhh.. its different in Britain though... Primary schools (4-11) don't have counsellors and very few Secondary schools... even today don't have them either... infact a counsellor at a Secondary school is often not even qualified!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonz
So, what you are implying is teachers are NOT qualified to diagnose ADHD correctly and should stick to their job of teaching and leave the medical/psych stuff to the professionsals??

I think what she is saying is they do not have the resources made availible to them, so there is no professional help availible without consulting the parents.

though I think we can all agree that teachers are not shrinks, and therefore sound diagnose ADD or the other one, it takes a professional. But to get to a professional is hard where claire is cause you have to say to the parents "I've noticed a problem...." and the parents freak out.