The War is back on

Gonz said:
Add to that, the United States Congress passing authorization, not once, not twice but three times for President Bush to handle these matters as he, the COMMANDER IN CHIEF, see fit.
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Good thing we put a stop to that with the new congress improvements.
 
spike said:
I thought Iraqi civilians were on our side or something?
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some are, some aren't.
So
you got any numbers on how many "civilians" were killed by
Coalition forces vs insergents?

I think it'd be hard to get a good number considering it's hard to tell
insergents form civilians in some areas.
 
One of the first attempts to independently estimate the loss of civilian life from the Iraqi war has concluded that at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians may have died because of the U.S. invasion.

The analysis, an extrapolation based on a relatively small number of documented deaths, indicated that many of the excess deaths have occurred due to aerial attacks by coalition forces, with women and children being frequent victims, wrote the international team of public health researchers making the calculations.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html

This site estimates about 50,000 civilians.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Then there's that Trillion or so tax dollars we don't have anymore.
 
Oh, and about the taxes.....
If someone kills your family, are you more worried about money, or justice with future security?
 
Spike, how many of those 100K dead were iraqi policemen killed because they dared interfere with the glorious Jihad? Including them "because of the US invasion" jsut goes to show how useless statistics really are. How many dead were killed when insurgents blew up oil plants? Is that really the US's fault too?
 
catocom said:
See, one says 100k, and one 50k, and that's total, not separated.
Also in that second link, how many doing the reporting there are insurgents,
or are rooting for them?
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The more civilains we kill the more relatives are going to turn into insurgents that want us out of their country.

Any way you look at it it's a hell of a lot of civilians.

About the taxes, now we don't have the money, justice, or security. Iraqis weren't even a threat to my family in the first place. What a waste of money and lives.
 
spike said:
The more civilains we kill the more relatives are going to turn into insurgents that want us out of their country.

Any way you look at it it's a hell of a lot of civilians.

About the taxes, now we don't have the money, justice, or security. Iraqis weren't even a threat to my family in the first place. What a waste of money and lives.
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I have heard that some may have "turn into insurgents", but IMO a person
either is or isn't an insurgent. It seems to me that if a person turns,
to the opposing side, they were mentally capable of being there to start with.

So, IMO, you can't create an insurgent. They were already headed that way.:shrug:
 
Nobody would get pissed off after their children are killed or something.

Sure, some people would become insurgents as soon as their country was invaded too. Like the Patick Swayze or Charlie Sheen types from Red Dawn. Wolverines! :D
 
spike said:
Nobody would get pissed off after their children are killed or something.

Sure, some people would become insurgents as soon as their country was invaded too. Like the Patick Swayze or Charlie Sheen types from Red Dawn. Wolverines! :D
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Getting pissed off, and deciding to help people that want to take over the
country to use it as they want to, instead of liberating the people doesn't
make since.
 
Well, since there isn't so much "liberating" going on maybe it's understandable to get pissed off at the people who invaded your country and killed your children, father, mother, or brother.

Maybe it's understandable to help Iraqis who want to use the country as they wish instead helping the US use the country as they wish.

If another country invaded the US and your family died because of it who would you be pissed at? Would you let it slide?
 
spike said:
The more civilains we kill
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Maybe if the terrorists & ba'athists would put on uniforms & face their enemy like men, instead of hiding behind the burkas of their mothers & wives, they'd be treated like soldiers & they coul ddie like soldiers & fewer civilians would get killed. The civilians death toll is part of warfare. Some places plan it (Syria, the PLO, Iran) some end up killing them as collateral damage while attempting to stop the real bad guys.
 
Gonz said:
Maybe if the terrorists & ba'athists would put on uniforms & face their enemy like men
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:laugh: That's funny. Just line up in nice rows to get mowed down by vastly superior firepower. Good one.

I think you confuse manly with utter stupidity.

Even Henry Kissinger says "military victory is no longer possible in Iraq". You're just going to have to come to terms with the situation and quit advocating throwing away lives and good money after bad.
 
spike said:
Well, since there isn't so much "liberating" going on
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So you're saying you don't think there was any oppression under Saddam?

spike said:
maybe it's understandable to get pissed off at the people who invaded your country and killed your children, father, mother, or brother.
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Like I said..."pissed off" yes. Trying to get retribution the wrong way, no.

Oh, I guess you mean the terrorist that invaded from Iran, Syria...:p

spike said:
Maybe it's understandable to help Iraqis who want to use the country as they wish instead helping the US use the country as they wish.
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So, how is the US using it?
From what I understand, part of that big money spent that you mentioned
is building new, and rebuilding, infrastructure.....for them.

spike said:
If another country invaded the US and your family died because of it who would you be pissed at? Would you let it slide?
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"Let it slide", probably not.
"Get pissed", you bet.
"At who", depends on the circumstances.
 
Cat (Gonz too for that matter)- if an invasion of the USA happened and you weren't already in the military, would you join first, go through basic training and get your uniform and firearm before taking on the invaders or would you go down to the local firearms store, buy an M16 and start plugging away at anyone in a foreign uniform?

Many people are assuming that the civilians killed were killed because they harbored the 'bad guys' somehow. Yesterday, a tank took out a building in Iraq because two gunmen planted themselves on a roof and started firing. Who's to say that the owners of that building knew that 'the bad guys' were on the roof? Still doesn't stop a building-full of innocents from dying tho'. :shrug: It's a shame all around.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6193620.stm

A US military statement said militants on the roof of a house had fired on its forces, who responded with tank fire.

It said soldiers searching the building found the bodies of one man and the five girls, one of whom was an infant.

Ramadi, 115km (70 miles) west of Baghdad, is located in Anbar province, a stronghold for Sunni Arab militants.

The youngest female casualty was six-months-old and the eldest was aged 10. Another female at the scene was injured but refused treatment, the statement said.
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