THOUGHTS ON GUN CONFISCATION

[Sharky]

What I wanna know...what the hell happened to $350. handguns? What I once paid $299 for is now over a grand.

What type of handgun are you referring to? Revolvers are still fairly inexpensive, and Taurus makes some very nice semi-autos that are reasonably priced ($300-400).

For what it's worth:

City folks might see this topic a little differently than us country bumpkins, but this I know: There is no crime in my "neighborhood" (11 homesteads on about 200 acres of land), and there has never been a burglary as far back as I can remember, nor as far back as my neighbors can recall, and they have been living there since the land was divided up and sold off in the early 60s.

It's a well-known fact that we are all armed, and I sincerely believe that criminals avoid the area for that very reason.

 

[Gato_Solo]

More people are killed, or injured, by knives every year than by guns. Why aren't we all banning knives? I hear that one woman in the UK is on just such a crusade even now...

Wait...It gets worse...

• The Western country with the highest per capita homicide rate is not the United States, but Mexico, where only the wealthy and the influential are permitted handguns. The per capita Mexican knife homicide rate is three times greater than the American rate for all kinds of homicides. Perhaps Mexico would have more homicides if handguns were available, although criminological evidence indicates that a potential murderer is fully as deadly with a knife as with a handgun. But if lethality is the criterion we should ban long guns, leaving handguns for self-defense.

• Other Western countries, notably Switzerland and Israel, have not only far lower violence rates than ours, but far higher rates of civilian firearms possession. Switzerland requires every military age male to have a handgun or a machine gun. Yet Switzerland's per capita homicide rate is one-sixth that of handgun-banning Japan. And Taiwan's homicide rate is almost twice that of ours, despite capital punishment for unauthorized sale of any kind of firearm. Ceylon's homicide rate equals Taiwan's, although it has required a permit to own any firearm since 1917. Basing conclusions as to firearms bans on comparisons of different societies' homicide rates is often hazardous, but the comparison is Rep. Drinan's, not mine. My point (which is supported by cross-national comparisons) is that the determinants of violence are institutions and mores which produce violence-prone people.

 

[Professur]

Well, at midnight tonight, you americans can legally own assault weapons for personal use. No, wait. Purchase. You can legally purchase assault weapons for personal use. Have any of you missed having that opportunity in the last ten years? Felt oppressed? Naked? Defenseless? Anyone been attacked by herds of marauding elk?

Y'know, I just don't get it. What's the big deal? Any competent gunsmith could convert just about any semi auto weapon to full auto. Plans for such conversions are widely available. Previously sold assault weapons weren't rounded up because of the ban on selling them. So what, exactly, was the point of banning them in the first place? Out side of making absolutely sure that there wasn't a single registration of purchase or possession of assault weapons anywhere in the US for the last ten years.

 

[unclehobart]

I think the long term effect upon banning the fresh inclusion would have had a bad effect upon the criminal element. After all... the self respecting owner takes care of his gear as he would take care of any other tool he owns. The criminalistic 'gang banger' doesn't give a shit and has probably never cleaned a gun in his life. His weapon would grow rusty and useless after a few years. In time, decades probably, the criminal level of 'assault' weapons would decline severely.

Its all fuzzy logic heruistic of course... but the justice department has released figures that all forms of violent and property crimes are at their lowest figures in 30 years. I would like to think that we've become more responsible.. but would easily believe that it is more due to sophistication in governmental surveilance and probably incidentals like the fact that a goodly chunk of baddies are already behind bars for lesser infractions.

I own a quote unquote assault weapon... but I am a responsible soul. What is to be done with me?

 

[freako104]

More people are killed, or injured, by knives every year than by guns. Why aren't we all banning knives? I hear that one woman in the UK is on just such a crusade even now...

Wait...It gets worse...

because somehow people think guns are more of a threat?

 

[catocom]

I wont me one of them thar ak47 thangs now since ther ain't no ban on US made ones no more.
I could take out some logger head mud turkles with that sucker.
Also I could probably kill enough deer at one time to only havta hunt once a year.

 

[freako104]

I was told that in Md we can have AK47s but they need to have some pin in them to make them semi auto rather than fully auto

 

[PT]

I probably will just go to bed rather than wait outside the gun shop for midnight to arrive.

 

[Inkara1]

If someone wanted an AK bad enough, even during the ban, it was easy enough to get one. And if you're going to shoot up a few cops, what's a possessing a banned weapon charge going to mean when you're facing charges for multiple first-degree murders? It's just something to make Michael Moore, Rosie O'Donnell and the others feel better.

Now that the ban expired, I really don't think we're going to see the masses toting military-grade full-auro machine guns. I personally think it would be cool to have a Gatling gun just to have one, but I doubt I'll ever get one.

 

[catocom]

yeah you may not see "the masses toting military-grade full-auro machine guns"
but I bet sales do go up.
I want one. I don't think it's in the budget though.

 

[MrBishop]

In homes with guns, a member of the household is almost three times as likely to be the victim of a homicide compared to gun-free homes *

There are an estimated 192 million firearms in civilian hands.** Yet, fewer and fewer Americans own more and more guns.

Surprisingly, only 25 percent of adults own a firearm. Of these, three out of four own more than one gun.***

About 10 percent of the adult population owns 77 percent of the total stock of firearms.****

For every time a gun in the home is used in a self-defense homicide, a gun will be used in—


1.3 unintentional deaths

4.6 criminal homicides

37 suicides*****


*Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, et al. "Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home." NEJM 329:15 (1993):1084-1091
**Cook, P. and Ludwig, J. Guns in America. Police Foundation, 1996
***Cook, P. and Ludwig, J. Guns in America. Police Foundation, 1996
****Cook, P. and Ludwig, J. Guns in America. Police Foundation, 1996
*****Kellermann, AL and Reay, DT. "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearm-Related Deaths in the Home." NEJM 314:24 (1986):1557-1560.

 

[MrBishop]

To brief: Every time a gun is used correctly(in self defence) it is used incorrectly 43 times. This is by 'responsible' owners with registered firearm(s).

There are more people hoarding firearms...many of whom already own 4 or more. Many of these don't realize that owning more guns does not mathematically decrease your odds of being robbed or shot during a robbery

 

[Gotnolegs]

Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership

Simply not true mate. I go shooting regularly, and I have never had my hands on an illegal gun. Handguns are illegal but that is a whole different ballgame...

 

[HomeLAN]

You folks do know how the original 19 guns in the 1994 ban were chosen, right? Feinstein and some aides went through a gun catalog and picked nasty looking guns. Didn't matter what the specifications were, it was just that they looked lethal. They made sure the Tec 9 was in there because it had been recently used in a particularly nasty crime in Fienstein's native California.

They threw in the 10 round magazine limit as a sop to true gun control advocates so that they didn't get crucified by their own supporters. Any law written as badly and as "from the gut" as this one needed to expire.

 

[catocom]

To brief: Every time a gun is used correctly(in self defence) it is used incorrectly 43 times. This is by 'responsible' owners with registered firearm(s).

There are more people hoarding firearms...many of whom already own 4 or more. Many of these don't realize that owning more guns does not mathematically decrease your odds of being robbed or shot during a robbery

Now, what percentage of those are Rifles, and what percent Handguns?
It seems it would be a little harder to kill yourself with a rifle.

 

[Professur]

I was told that in Md we can have AK47s but they need to have some pin in them to make them semi auto rather than fully auto

That's what I said about any comptent gunsmith. Changing a perfectly legal semi to full auto is about half an hour's work. And back again as quick.


On a comical note: The radio here is squacking news reports and editorials about how this is gonna allow full auto weapons to sneak back into Canada. The comedy is that the article prior to the editorial was about a guy they just caught, that they've been chasing for 10 years. They found him with a truck full of illegal weapons, and his house full too. 80 weapons related charges so far. The week before, they'd also found a van full of explosives and full auto weapons. Seems like someone forgot to tell the criminals that they were supposed to wait until the ban was over.

 

[chcr]

Well, I for one have never been convinced that gun control in any way keeps guns out of the hands of criminals, which is the reason I would want it if I did. On the other hand, I seriously believe that 50% (or more) of the current legal gun owners should not, in fact, even be allowed near sharp objects. I simply get tired of the idea that society must continually pander to the lowest common denominator (speed limits, gun control, warning labels, etc.).

 

[unclehobart]

In homes with guns, a member of the household is almost three times as likely to be the victim of a homicide compared to gun-free homes *

There are an estimated 192 million firearms in civilian hands.** Yet, fewer and fewer Americans own more and more guns.

Surprisingly, only 25 percent of adults own a firearm. Of these, three out of four own more than one gun.***

About 10 percent of the adult population owns 77 percent of the total stock of firearms.****

For every time a gun in the home is used in a self-defense homicide, a gun will be used in—


1.3 unintentional deaths

4.6 criminal homicides

37 suicides*****


*Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, et al. "Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home." NEJM 329:15 (1993):1084-1091
**Cook, P. and Ludwig, J. Guns in America. Police Foundation, 1996
***Cook, P. and Ludwig, J. Guns in America. Police Foundation, 1996
****Cook, P. and Ludwig, J. Guns in America. Police Foundation, 1996
*****Kellermann, AL and Reay, DT. "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearm-Related Deaths in the Home." NEJM 314:24 (1986):1557-1560.

I always hated this stat because it is a blatant attempt to compare a mini-stat outside of the scope of the whole. One doesn't have to kill an intruder to have it as a valid self-defense. Its probably waaay sub 1% of a lethal defense encounter. It invalidates all of the non lethal defenses... all of the times where a burglar bolted at the very sight of a gun... or the unaccountable times a criminal sect wouldn't go near a place simply because they knew the owners were armed to the teeth.

 

[MrBishop]

I always hated this stat because it is a blatant attempt to compare a mini-stat outside of the scope of the whole. One doesn't have to kill an intruder to have it as a valid self-defense. Its probably waaay sub 1% of a lethal defense encounter. It invalidates all of the non lethal defenses... all of the times where a burglar bolted at the very sight of a gun... or the unaccountable times a criminal sect wouldn't go near a place simply because they knew the owners were armed to the teeth.

Actually...it talks about anytime a gun is used...neither lethally nor otherwise...just discharged...even into the ground, the ceiling or the couch behind the culprit.

Stats can't count the unaccounteable...any more than it can count what isn't reported. During my last trip to Hartford, Connecticut...my ex-cousin caught someone trying to come over his fence at about 11pm...he fired 4 shots in the general direction of the person going over the top. No report was given or asked for. Dont' know who the person was of why they were trying to go over the fence...just shoot first and fuhgetaboutit!

 

[unclehobart]

I'm not seeing where its taking what youre saying into account. I only see outright homocides... which means that every time a perpetrator gets shot three times and has the gall to live... it doesn't count within these stats. It is simply hopelessly flawed on purpose because the author of that so-called study was trying to slant it to make it shocking. I discount it out of hand.