US releases pre-pubescent gitmo detainee

:shrug:

Seems like for some reason both of you appear to think a Muslim writing for a Canadian news source is not credible. Why else would you criticize the source? It must be because of his heritage. Or the country he resides in. Surely it can't be because of the quality of his words. I'm sure we'll never know. Regardless, for shame. :disgust:

i think it's more that we're suggesting that your single source is contradicted by innumerable other reports.
 
however you want to rationalize not thinking for yourself is fine with me. if you wanna use some bullshit about someone else being an anti-american pinko commie fag that wants to serve tea and crumpets to the enemy, so be it. you have a lot of company these days.

Hmm...I never even tried to imply that one. Once again you have failed to fully understand my point in your rush to judgement on my statement. Your knee okay from that?

Anyway...my point was that if he threw the grenade then would him getting riddled with bullets have been preferable, in your opinion?

2minkey said:
you're right. i don't think pre-pubescent kids should undergo interrogation at gitmo, and that is what i reacted to. though, strangely enough, that part doesn't seem to be under contention, just the grenade thing, and you knew what happened there without even needing to investigate, right?

Never said I knew. You, OTOH, seem to be insisting that it hadn't happened at all...Guess you actually were there, right? ;)
 
Anyway...my point was that if he threw the grenade then would him getting riddled with bullets have been preferable, in your opinion?
Off hand...I'd have to say, yes. You die in a war if you involve yourself in the war..it's expected and even codified.

You involve yourself in a war and get 'arrested', flown to a third nation (not involved in the war), and 'tortured' and questioned for 6 years, without a charge being laid.. forced to self-incriminate under duress.

The bullets would've been faster, less painful and less damaging to the USA's reputation over the long run.
 
1. Hmm...I never even tried to imply that one. Once again you have failed to fully understand my point in your rush to judgement on my statement. Your knee okay from that?

2. Anyway...my point was that if he threw the grenade then would him getting riddled with bullets have been preferable, in your opinion?

3. Never said I knew. You, OTOH, seem to be insisting that it hadn't happened at all...Guess you actually were there, right? ;)

1. you had a loyalty oath searing a beeline right up your bum as you were typing your previous response. ya ain't fooling nobody sarge.

2. if they saw him with a live grenade and apparent malice, of course they shoulda plugged him. if they saw him throw a grenade and do anything other than run like hell, of course they shoulda plugged him. that's not what happened according to what reports we have, which suggests that there were reports of a boy with a grenade, and a few boys were rounded up as potential suspects, blah blah blah.

3. bullshit. i've never insisted that anything in particular did or did not happen with respect to the incident that appears to have led to the boy's detention. there you go again.
 
Off hand...I'd have to say, yes. You die in a war if you involve yourself in the war..it's expected and even codified.

You involve yourself in a war and get 'arrested', flown to a third nation (not involved in the war), and 'tortured' and questioned for 6 years, without a charge being laid.. forced to self-incriminate under duress.

The bullets would've been faster, less painful and less damaging to the USA's reputation over the long run.



Oh, the horror. :rolleyes:



Gourmet Fare at Gitmo 'Gulag'


After Rep. Duncan Hunter's eye-opening description of how terrorist suspects are living high on the hog at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, prisoners from around the world will no doubt be clamoring for a 'gulag' cell of their own.

Appearing on Fox News Sunday, the House Armed Services Committee chairman began by detailing tonight's dinner menu at Gitmo - which all detainees, including one suspected of being involved in the 9/11 plot, will enjoy.

"For Sunday they're going to be having Orange Glazed Chicken, Fresh Fruit Roupee, Steamed Peas and Mushrooms, Rice Pilaf - we treat them very well," he told Fox.

Last night, Hunter said, the U.S. "torture victims" enjoyed the same kind of gourmet fare, including an entree of "Lemon-baked Fish."

On the other hand, feeding the detainees MREs, the standard fare given to our troops on the front lines, is strictly verboten - considered an "abuse" under restrictions imposed by Congress, Hunter said.

The top House Republican also noted that the religious practices of the terrorist suspects held at the U.S. "gulag" are scrupulously accommodated, explaining:

"We give them honey and dates when they break fast at Ramadan. We give them prayer beads and prayer oil - all paid for [by the U.S. taxpayer.]

"In fact," he said, "if you did that for American GIs - if you had a call to prayer five times a day - the ACLU would sue on the basis that we violated the separation between church and state."


"Gitmo Cookbook" Serves Up Food For Thought

The new "Gitmo Cookbook" puts allegations of prisoner torture at Guantanamo Bay in perspective. The cookbook contains the actual recipes and menus for the food served to the Gitmo detainees, as well as scaled-down versions suitable for family use so curious readers can taste for themselves.

Baked Tandouri Chicken Breast, Mustard-Dill Baked Fish, Lyonnaise Rice, and Fish Amandine are just a few of the recipes in the Gitmo Cookbook. They've all been tested, and are inexpensive, easy to make, and delicious. At the insistence of Congress, the U.S. military has gone to great lengths to ensure that these standard U.S. military meals have been sufficiently modified to comply with the strict requirements of halal, which require that one exclaim "in the name of God, most gracious, most merciful" while slicing through an animal's neck with a sharp blade. (Halal slaughter requires that the animal be conscious, while most other modern methods of slaughter involve stunning the animal before killing it.)

This cookbook highlights just how bend-over-backwards the US Military is in the treatment of the prisoners, who are considered the worst of the worst from al-Qaida and the Taliban. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said, "the kind of people held at Guantanamo include terrorist trainers, bomb makers, extremist recruiters and financiers, bodyguards of Osama bin Laden, and would-be suicide bombers."

"The menus in the Gitmo Cookbook are a tangible example of the kind of treatment prisoners at Gitmo receive. The Nazis, Soviets, Japanese and Khmer Rouge never provided POW's with 2,000 calorie-a-day meal plans. To compare Gitmo to such gulags and concentration camps, as Illinois Senator Dick Durbin did, is not only a tremendous insult to the US Military, it's also an insult to everyone who truly did suffer at the hands of those regimes."

For more information on the Gitmo Cookbook, please visit the website at www.gitmocookbook.com or www.dummocrats.com




Quantico gets first mosque, run by Wahhabi cleric

Apparently, whatever Saifulislam wants, he gets -- even at the terrorist prison camp at Gitmo, where he was first assigned after 9-11. There, he recommended that al-Qaida detainees be served halal meals -- including traditional dates and lamb -- prepared according to Islamic dietary law. The Gitmo menu now boasts 113 Muslim-appropriate meals for the benefit of finicky terrorist tummies.

That's not all. Thanks to Saifulislam's advice, our enemy now wakes to the sound of Muslim chaplains calling them to prayer instead of barking dogs or guards, who are now trained in Muslim sensitivity. Also thanks to Saifulislam, detainees can brush up on jihad by reading paperback Pentagon-issued copies of the Quran. They can even finger prayer beads and wear makeshift turbans and skull caps.

....Instead, it's giving him a permanent taxpayer-supported platform from which to convert grunts to Islam. With the Quantico mosque, the Pentagon is facilitating the study of the holy texts the enemy uses, heretically or not, as their manual of war. This is tantamount to the Marines setting up a Mein Kampf reading room during WWII.

The timing of the dedication ceremony is ironic by half. As the deputy secretary of defense and Marine commandant respectfully removed their shoes to enter the mosque and intoned pleasant PC platitudes about being one big happy "family" with Muslims, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police announced the arrest of 17 Muslim men who had allegedly plotted to explode fertilizer-based bombs at important sites in Canada. Their plans also called for attacking parliament and even beheading the prime minister. Almost half of them had attended the same mosque in Toronto.

The Pentagon's over-the-top gesture is only the latest sign that political correctness is running amok inside the military. Chief chaplains for the Navy, Army and Air Force routinely meet with top leaders from the Islamic Society of North America for PC powwows, even though ISNA is a Saudi-backed group with ties to terrorists. No matter, the Pentagon distributes ISNA literature on Islam and Muslims to help increase troops' "sensitivity" toward Islam.


Iraqi detainees refusing to go home: US general

BAGHDAD (AFP) — An increasing number of Iraqi detainees are refusing to leave detention centres despite being eligible for release because they want to complete studies begun behind bars, a US general said on Sunday.

The US military offers a wide range of educational programmes to the 23,000 or so detainees -- adults and juveniles -- being held at its two detention facilities, Camp Cropper near Baghdad's international airport and Camp Bucca near the southern port city of Basra.

Some parents of juvenile detainees, too, have asked that their children remain behind bars so they can continue their schooling, said Stone, the commanding general for US detainee operations in Iraq.

The US military, he added, was not encouraging the trend.

"We don't want them to remain in detention," he said. "When they are no longer considered a threat we want them to go home."

Teachers at the House of Wisdom school at Camp Cropper told AFP recently that parents of juvenile detainees had asked that siblings be locked up with their brothers so they too could benefit from the educational programmes offered at the camp.
 
Pretending someone nearby was dead
Making a noise of a gun being loaded
Making a power drill noise
Blowing smoke in a face
Verbally threatening a terrorist's family


smdemocrat.jpg
 
one of the main problems with this issue to me seems to be people
lumping things/people together.

not all are treated the same, and the 'nicer' interogations were used to start with.

The 'enhanced' part was the last resort.

so lets not take this whole thing out of context.
 
Cerise: If the person that you're torturing dies too quickly, they don't get anything out of'em. Food, education etc...is part and parcel of the psychological interrogation process..much like re-education. You may want to read about the Stockholm syndrome a bit. I'm sure that they get great medical care as well... much like prisoners in stateside prisons. Even the child rapist gets his Glazed Chicken breasts along with the rest.

What the child rapist serving out time in 'singsing' doesn't get - is sleep deprivation frequent flyer treatment, dunkings, waterboarding, threats to his family etc etc...

Cause it's ILLEGAL! That is, everywhere in the extended USA (including on military bases abroad) it's illegal...but in Gitmo, it's all good! Right?
 
even if it were proven beyond any doubt, you would never internalize it...

okay...

would you put a 12 year-old in a regular prison with a bunch of violent offenders? or might you come up with a different place to put him or her?
 
For torture to be torture, it must be a government-authorized official's application of "severe mental or physical pain or suffering" in order to acquire information from an individual suspected of having it. So the correct analogy would be the torture via EITs of terrorist insurgents to get information to avoid guerrilla attacks in a war zone. And we have a very good precedent for that in military history. Here's a document from Norway's 1948 war-crimes trial detailing the prosecution of Nazis convicted of "enhanced interrogation techniques" (the phrase in its original German is "verschaerfte Vernehmung)" in the Second World War. Here's a document detailing Nazi bureaucratic description of these techniques. You will note the striking similarities between its content, its legalisms, its bureaucratic tone, and the recent CIA documents pried out of the US government's hands by the ACLU:

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Notice how the Gestapo, like Cheney, had doctors present, and all torture was very carefully monitored. Blows with a stick, like collaring someone and bashing his body against a plywood wall - were carefully monitored to a maximum number of times. The "windowless cells", and sleep deprivation are identical to Cheney's methods. In the 1948 trial, cold baths were also used to bring prisoners' temperatures down to near-death levels, like those used by Navy SEALS in Afghanistan, by McChrystal's special ops in Iraq, and by Cheney's supervised torture in Gitmo. The victims wore no uniforms (which was used as a defense by the Nazis in the trial as they have been used by some on the right to defend American torture), and, unlike those subjected to Cheney's torture techniques, none of those tortured by the Gestapo died in the process. In fact, the Gestapo's defense at trial was John Yoo's:

Most of the injuries inflicted were slight and did not result in permanent disablement.


The Gestapo did not use waterboarding - so their methods of interrogation in this case were not as extreme as Cheney's. Nonetheless, the US-run court ruled that Cheney-style EITs, deployed by the Gestapo with the same justification as Cheney, constituted prosecutable torture:


As extenuating circumstances, [accused torturer] Bruns had pleaded various incidents in which he had helped Norwegians, Schubert had pleaded difficulties at home, and Clemens had pointed to several hundred interrogations during which he had treated prisoners humanely.


The Court did not regard any of the above-mentioned circumstances as a sufficient reason for mitigating the punishment and found it necessary to act with the utmost severity. Each of the defendants was responsible for a series of incidents of torture, every one of which could, according to Art. 3 (a), (c) and (d) of the Provisional Decree of 4th May, 1945, be punished by the death sentence.

And they were executed for war crimes.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/09/the-gestapo-precedent-for-eits.html

Hey, that makes it simple.
 
You involve yourself in a war and get 'arrested', flown to a third nation (not involved in the war), and 'tortured' and questioned for 6 years, without a charge being laid.. forced to self-incriminate under duress.

Been happening (except for the flying part) for eons.
 
Those initial methods were highlighted in another thread as egregious.

However, no terrorists were harmed in the process of extracting information.
 
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