Vindication III

[Gato_Solo]

Would those be the same insurgents who attacked Mosul and Falluja by air?

Since that was a counter-attack, and not an overt attack on unarmed civilians, your argument falls apart.

I think its that kind of simplistic thinking that really causes problems. You can't view a country and its people with that kind of condescending nonsense.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1398464,00.html most of the insurgents are Iraqi.

So...most of the Iraqi's don't want to work to feed their families? That's what you're saying... Like most, you are making the situation overly complex. You say my view is simplistic...it's not. As for your url...I wouldn't wrap my fish in the Guardian.

 

[Lopan]

So...most of the Iraqi's don't want to work to feed their families? That's what you're saying... Like most, you are making the situation overly complex. You say my view is simplistic...it's not. As for your url...I wouldn't wrap my fish in the Guardian.

You said it in such a way that you were implying that all these simple foreign folk just want to work and feed their chidren. I think thats simplistic and condescending. They live in a complex society and want pretty much what we want.

The Guardian is a very good paper albeit sometimes sickeningly liberal. They do have very good columnists and interesting special reports. I alosread the times, telegraph and independent.

 

[Gato_Solo]

You said it in such a way that you were implying that all these simple foreign folk just want to work and feed their chidren. I think thats simplistic and condescending. They live in a complex society and want pretty much what we want.

It's not. It's direct, and to the point. People who add other "things" to that mix are only trying to justify some behavior that isn't necessary to survival. Society may be complex, but that's because some have, and some don't. If everybody is working, the problems tend to disappear.

The Guardian is a very good paper albeit sometimes sickeningly liberal. They do have very good columnists and interesting special reports. I alosread the times, telegraph and independent.

 

[Lopan]

It's not. It's direct, and to the point. People who add other "things" to that mix are only trying to justify some behavior that isn't necessary to survival. Society may be complex, but that's because some have, and some don't. If everybody is working, the problems tend to disappear.

Are you aware of Maslows triangle?

Survival? How simplistic is that. Human society is complex, I'm sure your whole day isn't spent hunting your own food and building a small shack for
the evening.

As Maslow said:
A famous psychologist, Abraham Maslow, saw it this way.

“We have a hierarchy of needs. For us to be fully human in a society we must be able to satisfy all these needs. If any one ‘layer’ of needs is not being achieved, then we cannot fully be human.”

 

[Gato_Solo]

Are you aware of Maslows triangle?

Survival? How simplistic is that. Human society is complex, I'm sure your whole day isn't spent hunting your own food and building a small shack for
the evening.

Working for a living is exactly that. Yu can add to it, but, once basic needs are met, most (99.99%) of the population is at peace.

As Maslow said:
A famous psychologist, Abraham Maslow, saw it this way.

“We have a hierarchy of needs. For us to be fully human in a society we must be able to satisfy all these needs. If any one ‘layer’ of needs is not being achieved, then we cannot fully be human.”

And...speaking from experience...most psychologists are a bit loony. I went to school and hung out with quite a few of them. Perhaps I'm loony, too.

 

[Lopan]

Working for a living is exactly that. Yu can add to it, but, once basic needs are met, most (99.99%) of the population is at peace.



And...speaking from experience...most psychologists are a bit loony. I went to school and hung out with quite a few of them. Perhaps I'm loony, too.

In which case why do we strive to achieve anything? The human mind is too curious and complex to just "survive".

I wouldn't say Maslow is crazy, but if I start quoting Freud then please feel free

 

[Gato_Solo]

In which case why do we strive to achieve anything? The human mind is too curious and complex to just "survive".

We strive to acheive to either make survival easier, or to enrich our bloodline with deeds. Learning, and knowing, our environment, and our place in it, is not all that complex. It's just, plain, survival.

I wouldn't say Maslow is crazy, but if I start quoting Freud then please feel free

Having never met Maslow personally, I can't make that judgement, either. I can only say what I've seen when it comes to Psych majors in general...

 

[ClaireBear]

I can only say what I've seen when it comes to Psych majors in general...

I just took one damn psych module God dammit... it wasn't even a minor!!!

Whats my excuse!?

 

[Gato_Solo]

I just took one damn psych module God dammit... it wasn't even a minor!!!

Whats my excuse!?

Guilt by association. I took Psych courses, too. I freely admit that I sometimes don't have both oars in. That's the first step to healing.

 

[Lopan]

We strive to acheive to either make survival easier, or to enrich our bloodline with deeds. Learning, and knowing, our environment, and our place in it, is not all that complex. It's just, plain, survival.



Having never met Maslow personally, I can't make that judgement, either. I can only say what I've seen when it comes to Psych majors in general...

I think it may be the case that we don't want to just survive as that would make us no different from animals. If all you wanted to do was survive why do you do things that make you happy? Why have hobbies or interests?

 

[ClaireBear]

I think it may be the case that we don't want to just survive as that would make us no different from animals. If all you wanted to do was survive why do you do things that make you happy? Why have hobbies or interests?

Or guilt about not having said hobbies, interests... life.. (see my feeling strange tread)

 

[Gato_Solo]

I think it may be the case that we don't want to just survive as that would make us no different from animals. If all you wanted to do was survive why do you do things that make you happy? Why have hobbies or interests?

Misplaced survival trait. Basically...having more than one skill gives you a better chance for survival. No animals=no meat=starvation, so, you learn farming/gathering as well. As our society progressed, we adopted other skills to take place of the bare necessities because we didn't have to worry. We fill the empty space of time we used to use for hunting/gathering/farming with other skills because we're wired that way. Deep down, we're still hunter/gatherers, living on a tribal level. Refusing to admit it, and claiming there's something more is just a smokescreen. It's just my opinion, and you can make of it what you will, but there it is...

 

[Lopan]

Just out of interest what survival instincts do you employ on a daily basis? As a species and especially in the west we no longer have the skills to be hunter gatherers. You can see the evidence, we are soft our little toes are starting to dissapear as we no longer use them for balance. Our eyesight and hearing are rubbish compared to real hunters like deep forest tribesmen in south america.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Just out of interest what survival instincts do you employ on a daily basis? As a species and especially in the west we no longer have the skills to be hunter gatherers. You can see the evidence, we are soft our little toes are starting to dissapear as we no longer use them for balance. Our eyesight and hearing are rubbish compared to real hunters like deep forest tribesmen in south america.

I look both ways before crossing a busy intersection. All of them. Being aware of when we use them is not necessary. Eat when hungry...drink when thirsty...avoid, or eliminate danger...sex...shelter...warmth...Everything we do is in pursuit of the above. How can we not be using our survival instincts?

As for no skills...My eyesight may not be top notch, but I can hit what I aim at. I also have a 'green thumb', and can farm enough for my family, if I had to. We are not as soft as you think, and, if 'civilization' ever collapsed, I'm sure we'd survive...even without what you may deem part of our lives today.

 

[MrBishop]

Ironically, the US, since standing up has not been attacked, outside a declred war zone. On the other hand, a country that cut & run (Spain) has now been attacked twice...the latest coming today.

psst...ETA isn't an Iraqui group, nor is it a muslim group...ETA is basque which is partially in France and Partially in Spain and wants it's own country in the same way that they way that they have their own language.

You can't link Spain leaving Iraq with what's happening with ETA and more than you could link Iraq with the IRA bombings or the FLQ. There just is NO relation whatsover.

Try again.

 

[catocom]

Guilt by association. I took Psych courses, too. I freely admit that I sometimes don't have both oars in. That's the first step to healing.

I've got several Tony Robins tapes, does that count?

 

[Gato_Solo]

Hey, Lopan! I believe that proves my point quite nicely. Notice the paragraph on the first page, under the words "Worth the risk"...

 

[Lopan]

Hey, Lopan! I believe that proves my point quite nicely. Notice the paragraph on the first page, under the words "Worth the risk"...

Does it for me I should certainly believe MSNBC or how about we ask an Iraqi Blogger. Shadies and mentalmen I give you Salam Pax - Baghdad blogger extrodinaire.

Salam Pax

 

[Gato_Solo]

Does it for me I should certainly believe MSNBC or how about we ask an Iraqi Blogger. Shadies and mentalmen I give you Salam Pax - Baghdad blogger extrodinaire.

Salam Pax

You expected me to believe the Guardian...

How about this source? It also talks about what I said...All work and no play may make Jack a dull boy, but all play and no work will make Jack a dumb jerk.

 

[Gonz]

Does it for me I should certainly believe MSNBC or how about we ask an Iraqi Blogger. Shadies and mentalmen I give you Salam Pax - Baghdad blogger extrodinaire.

Salam Pax

So he agree's with the assessment that, it was about fucking time.