We have forgotten

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Less than 3 years. That is the attention span of the average America. Our friends & enemies forgot just weeks later but the WE WILL NOT FORGET Americans forgot.

Success has it's downside. Since we can't/won't talk about our successful terror stopping endeavors due to national security & the media (national & international) has decided to Lick Bush in '04 & our politicians have decided to politicize our soldiers lives for a few votes we can move on.

Afghanistan is attempting to have free elections. So what. Iraq is free, it's tyrant in custody & his sons killed in the name of justice. So What. Libya has rejoined the world stage, giving up it's weapons (Iraqs?). Doesn't matter.

Nothing matters as long as a certain group of politicians decide it doesn't matter. As long as they aren't in power they will lie, cheat & probably steal. They have Hollywoods help, releasing movies that are nothing but false accusations aimed to weaken a sitting wartime President. The truth behind the charge is irrelevent if the charge is repeated often enough. They are using the media (NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, CNN, al Jazeera) to help spread the allegations. The day of journalism is behind us & the day of spin doctors & sound bites has ovetaken us. Repeat a lie often enough & it becomes allegorical truth.

The weapons we went to war with Iraq over have yet to be found in sufficient numbers to appease the left. They've been found, over & over they've been found but it wasn't sexy enough for a :20 second story on PMSNBC or the BBC. The Hussein family is no longer in violation of 14 United Nations Security Council resolutions, in which he agreed to fully cooperate. Possibly more than a million bodies have been found in mass graves in Iraq. Some were children, brutally cut down before they had a chance to do anything, be anything, see anything. Many were women. Of them, I'd place high wages on most of them being slaughtered after they spent time in rape rooms, possible watching their children get raped & sodomized too. Of course men were exterminated. They were decapitated, shot, burned with fire and/or chemicals, stabbed, beaten & any number of other lovely means of violence.

When we experienced 9/11 we were a nation united. That nation doesn't exist today. It began falling apart as soon as half the country realized we were a conservative nation. A nation more concerned with family & friends than minvans & Starbucks. A nation more concerned with security than being correct. Not long after 9/11 they accusations began by the far left "What did he know & when did he know it" was one that stuck in my craw. Another was "We didn't connect the dots". Well, that has all been shown to be a lifetime of disillusionment with our intelligence agencies. Forgetting that the CIA never ever produces media spin on how we killed those 8 bad guys in Bangledesh before they burned the orphanage to the ground or how we spied on the Soviet Union using their own secret telephone lines. (well, no spin until the USSR is no more). Doing so would not only spell tragedy for the contacts it would allow our enemy to infiltrate our surveillance systems.

On Sunday, Aug 1, 2004 our nations Homeland Security Director, Tom Ridge, called an unusual press conference. He called it to raise the (stupid) colored warning system to HIGH (orange) in metro NYC, northern NJ & Washington DC. They had learned of an investigation al qaeda had underway to determine the best times to damage or destroy certain buidings (listed in another thread). The information came from an arrest of multiple members of al qaeda in Pakistan. One of the detained is a computer geek with lots of goodies sitting around the Pakistani hovel.

Some of the information obtained included names of several America landmark companies (including the TransAmerica bldg in San Francisco.). Among the information gathered was maps, drawings, photographs, notes on times that the surrounding area of the building is most & least busy. security information on the movements & locations of security personel as well as locations of NYPD at any given time. This was not some half assed recon mission. It was detailed reports on the comings & goings of some of the most financially important companies in the world, including the New York Stock Exchange and the International Monetary Fund building.

One day, not even 24 hours, later, The New York Times & the Washington Post (among many many others) ran stories that the information wasn't recent. In fact, Sunday evening I believe, former Democrat Presidential hopeful Howard Dean all but called this information bogus & said it was being used as a ploy to scare the American voter. He and these newspaper stories insinuated that Director Ridge was placing politics over safety. The only newspaper that included an important caveat was, surprisingly, the Los Angeles Times. Kudos to them. The caveat was much of the information obtained by our intelligence was up to 4 years old. Some of it was also as new as January 2004.

Arguing fiscal strategy or who will help the poor widow Jones best is politics. Calling your adversary soft on crime is politcs. Tax breaks for the rich is politics. Using one line from a speech made 23 years ago is politics.


NATIONAL SECURITY IS NOT POLITICS.
Especially during an ongoing war. Especially when we are the target & the enemy has only one goal in mind. The complete eradication of the United States of America. The, the radical muslim terrorists want to kill you. Your mother. Your son. Your wife. Your dog. They want to burn your house to the ground with you in it. The only out they give you is to convert to wassabiism.


Personally I stand with my President. Bring it on.

picture01.jpg


Reminder. Yes you need it.
 
nobody has forgotten it Gonz. But most of us choose not to dwell on what happened but rather how to stop it from happening again
 
I wonder why it is you think we've forgotten. I certainly have not, there isn't a day goes by when I don't think about it. That does not mean that it is all I think about though. What else do you want from us Gonz, do you want us screaming in the streets, rioting, what?
 
PuterTutor said:
I wonder why it is you think we've forgotten.

Why? Because of misleading news stories. Because one huge segment of our population falsely accuses the President of atrocities & there is no outrage. The Democrat contender is given a pass when he says he has a "secret plan", ala Nixon. Because liars are given more credibility (Faranheit 9/11) than useless panels (9/11 Commission).

America is going back to sleep, vigiliance is waning. A sad day is looming because politics has crept into everything, including Nat'l Security.
 
Everyone remember the Islamic fundamentalist who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and tried to light it?

His trial is over.
He was sentenced.
Did you see/hear any of the judge's comments on TV/Radio.
Didn't think so.
Everyone should hear what the judge had to say.


Ruling by Judge William Young U.S. District Court:

Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant Richard Reid aka Abdel Rahim if he had anything to say.

His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his "allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah," defiantly stated "I think I ought not apologize for my actions," and told the court "I am at war with your country."

Judge Young then delivered the statement below, a stinging condemnation of Reid in particular and terrorists in general:


"Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.

On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United States Attorney General.

On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutive with the other. That's 80 years.

On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years consecutive to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 for the aggregate fine of $2 million.

The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.

The Court imposes upon you the $800 special assessment.

The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further.

This is the sentence that is provided for by our statues. It is a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence. Let me explain this to you.

We are not afraid of any of your terrorist coconspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is all too much war talk here. And I say that to everyone with the utmost respect.

Here in this court, where we deal with individuals as individuals, and care for individuals as individuals, as human beings we reach out for justice, you are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier gives you far too much stature. Whether it is the officers of government who do it or your attorney who does it, or that happens to be your view, you are a terrorist.

And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not treat with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice.

So war talk is way out of line in this court. You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I know warriors. You are a terrorist, a species of criminal guilty of multiple attempted murders.

In a very real sense Trooper Santigo had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and where the TV crews were and he said, "you're no big deal." You're no big deal.

What your counsel, what your able counsel; and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with, and what I have (as honestly as I know how) tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today? I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty, and admit you are guilty of doing. And I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you. But as I search this entire record it comes as close to understanding as I know.

It seems to me, you hate the one thing that is most precious. You hate our freedom, our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually choose.

Here, in this society, the very winds carry freedom. They carry it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much, that you are here in this beautiful courtroom. So that everyone can see, truly see that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely.

It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf, and have filed appeals will go on their, their representation of you before other judges. We are about it. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden, pay any price, to preserve our freedoms.

Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. Day after tomorrow it will be forgotten. But this, however, will long endure. Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done.

The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged, and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.

See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom. You know it always will.

Mr. Custody Officer. Stand him down."
 
Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. Day after tomorrow it will be forgotten. But this, however, will long endure. Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done.

:usa:
 
Gonz said:
Why? Because of misleading news stories. Because one huge segment of our population falsely accuses the President of atrocities & there is no outrage. The Democrat contender is given a pass when he says he has a "secret plan", ala Nixon. Because liars are given more credibility (Faranheit 9/11) than useless panels (9/11 Commission).

America is going back to sleep, vigiliance is waning. A sad day is looming because politics has crept into everything, including Nat'l Security.


/me wonders if anyone else thinks of The One Ring ... ;)
 
Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. Day after tomorrow it will be forgotten. But this, however, will long endure. Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done.

Except in Cuba...where we can all turn our eyes away from the justice which we so adore. Where there is no justice for individuals until when (if ever) WE decide that there should be, and that...only after it has been dragged back and forth through the media for the whole world to see.

tbc...
 
MrBishop said:
Except in Cuba...where we can all turn our eyes away from the justice which we so adore. Where there is no justice for individuals until when (if ever) WE decide that there should be, and that...only after it has been dragged back and forth through the media for the whole world to see.

tbc...

Where the fuck did this come from? Are we feeling a bit disjointed today?
 
I very much doubt that anyone has forgotten what happened on that fateful day, Gonz. Even those that hate the USA and all it stands for have not forgotten and understand that the hatred that rose up from the action of those cowards was warranted. The hatred and the war which followed are just.

Why you insist on linking 9/11 with Iraq is another story entirely. They're associated by only the thinnest cords at best.

I'm not denying all that Saddam has done in the past and that removing him from power was a good thing. The million bodies screamed out for justice...but by hunting that particular bear, you've let another get away. Saddam could've waited....really, he could've...he wasn't going anywhere, but the guy who brought 9/11 to your door...he was going somewhere and we still don't know where.
 
HomeLAN said:
Where the fuck did this come from? Are we feeling a bit disjointed today?

The judge used his desk as a pulpit...I'm reminding him through OTC that it's not a pulpit, nor a perfect desk, nor a perfect judicial system.

Hell, maybe my knickers were in a twist. Sue me.
 
MrBishop said:
Except in Cuba...where we can all turn our eyes away from the justice which we so adore. Where there is no justice for individuals until when (if ever) WE decide that there should be, and that...only after it has been dragged back and forth through the media for the whole world to see.

tbc...

So, are you suggesting the US, in it's might & glory, do the honorable thing & take down Fidel Castro or that Canada, et al, stop trading with this oppressor?

Bish said:
Why you insist on linking 9/11 with Iraq is another story entirely. They're associated by only the thinnest cords at best.

I haven't. Bush hasn't. Gato hasn't. Tom Ridge hasn't.

Iraq is linked to terrorism. The war is on terrorism. Iraq was already a guilty party to terrorism & sits in a very opportune position.
 
Afghanistan is attempting to have free elections. So what. Iraq is free, it's tyrant in custody & his sons killed in the name of justice.

You forgot the part about the Taliban taking control of Pakistan. Weren't they the ones ultimately responsible for harbouring and aiding the madman who planned and implemented the attack on America? We fixed their hash allright, they're just on the verge of becoming a nuke-yu-lar power.
 
chcr said:
You forgot the part about the Taliban taking control of Pakistan. Weren't they the ones ultimately responsible for harbouring and aiding the madman who planned and implemented the attack on America? We fixed their hash allright, they're just on the verge of becoming a nuke-yu-lar power.

You've lost me. Taliban & Pakistan? What am I missing?
 
Gonz said:
You've lost me. Taliban & Pakistan? What am I missing?

Osama Bin Laden apparently :D

Erm.....pakistan, on the Afghan border....their authorities are the only ones who are catching important Laden followers?
 
Sorry, you guys are way over my head on this one.

The last vestiges of the Taliban are on the run, probably with Usama & friends while Pakistan, a nuclear power before any of this started (well, that is going a long way back but you know what I mean) has decided we're better friends than enemies.

:confused:
 
Less than 3 years. That is the attention span of the average America. Our friends & enemies forgot just weeks later but the WE WILL NOT FORGET Americans forgot.

as a non-american i can say, that's without any doubt, you missed the spot entirely on that one. people haven't forgotten. not in europe, and i highly doubt people have forgotten in the US.
almost 3 years later, people still talk about it, people still use the attacks as an example of what we should try to prevent.
unfortunately, people also use the attacks as an excuse to beef up "security" by taking away and ignoring right on privacy around here. that's of course the downside of it all. but people definately haven't forgotten.

there hasn't been a single event the last, what is it, 65 years, that has caused more impact on society than this one.
 
Shadowfax said:
unfortunately, people also use the attacks as an excuse to beef up "security" by taking away and ignoring right on privacy around here. that's of course the downside of it all. but people definately haven't forgotten.
So who do hold responsible for the need to increase your security?
 
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