We have forgotten

ResearchMonkey said:
So who do hold responsible for the need to increase your security?

our 'beloved' government...they think that in order to increase national security (here they use the 9/11 attacks as an example of terrorists trying to take over the world), they will have to record every (mobile) phone conversation and every email and all internet actions of every dutch citizen for over 1 year (for security purposes)

can you say "big brother"?
 
BAH, what are you hiding? I could careless if they recorded every time I ever talked dirty over the phone. Who has the time to listen to every call ever made?

Others may have much more to hide then I do.

Besides, they're too busy weeeding thru all those 'gamers'
online shooter gamers said:
" . . . the guard almost spotted me! Should I kill him?"

"lets take the embassy, kill the guards and we'll fire some RPG's thru the windows and kill everyone inside then blow the embassy up".

"No, lets take them as hostages, are you ready?"

. . ever wonder how many of these the intel community has to see everyday?
 
Gonz said:
You've lost me. Taliban & Pakistan? What am I missing?
The Taliban and their sympathizers are trying (and succeeding in some instances) to take control of the confused politics of Pakistan. It has been in the news (marginally). There has always been a large segment of sympathizers in Pakistan, or didn't you realize that? Pakistan in fact helped create the Taliban for politcal purposes, to stabilize the situation in Afghanistan after the Soviets left. Read some recent history of the area. It sounds really nice to say they're helping us to track down these fanatics, just as it's comforting to not believe most of the money for terrorism comes from Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately, neither is correct.
 
Pakistan Allows Taliban to Train, a Detained Fighter Says
By CARLOTTA GALL

Published: August 4, 2004


ABUL, Afghanistan, Aug. 3 - For months Afghan and American officials have complained that even while Pakistan cooperates in the fight against Al Qaeda, militant Islamic groups there are training fighters and sending them into Afghanistan to attack American and Afghan forces.
Pakistani officials have rejected the allegations, saying they are unaware of any such training camps. Now the Afghan government has produced a young Pakistani, captured fighting with the Taliban in southern Afghanistan three months ago, whose story would seem to back its complaints about Pakistan.

The prisoner, who gave his name as Muhammad Sohail, is a 17-year-old from the Pakistani port city of Karachi, held by the Afghan authorities in Kabul. In an interview in late July, in front of several prison guards, he said Pakistan was allowing militant groups to train and organize insurgents to fight in Afghanistan. Mr. Sohail said he hoped that granting the interview would increase his chances of being freed. Mr. Sohail described his recruitment through his local mosque by a group listed by the United States as having terrorist links, his military training in a camp not far from the capital, Islamabad, and his dispatch with several other Pakistanis to Afghanistan.

He did not give all the details that intelligence officials said they gleaned from him in interrogations, but he talked easily about his party and its leaders, and said they had high-level support from within the establishment. He said he was recruited and trained within the past eight months by Jamiat-ul-Ansar, the new name for the Harakat-ul-Mujahedeen party, which was designated a terrorist group by the State Department and banned by President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan in January 2002. Under its new name it is functioning, if more discreetly, and its leader, Fazlur Rehman Khalil, moves around freely.

Mr. Khalil has been involved in recruiting and training militants since the 1980's. In 1998, American planes bombed his training camp in Afghanistan when they were targeting Osama bin Laden after the bombings of the American Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. The bombing killed a number of Pakistanis, and Mr. Khalil at the time vowed to take revenge against America for the attack.
It is an open secret in Pakistan that groups supporting separatism in Kashmir have not stopped their activities, despite official declarations, and have continued to train men and infiltrate them into Indian Kashmir. Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage said during a visit to the region last month that Pakistan had not dismantled all the camps used to train militants for Kashmir. And while he praised Pakistan for its efforts against Al Qaeda, he urged the country to do more to stop Taliban militants carrying out attacks from Pakistan.

Mr. Sohail is not the first Pakistani to be captured fighting alongside the Taliban and other militants in Afghanistan over the past two years. On at least one occasion, Pakistanis who were captured in a joint American-Afghan military operation last year were handed back to Pakistan. But he is the first made available for an interview by the Afghan government. Intelligence officials said they found on him a Jamiat-ul-Ansar membership card and a list of phone numbers of high-level party officials.

A Pakistani official interviewed recently described Mr. Sohail as a "one-off case," and denied that Pakistani militants were showing up in Afghanistan.

The Pakistani ambassador to Afghanistan, Rustam Shah Mohmand, said he thought Jamiat-ul-Ansar and its network had been dismantled. "There is no ambiguity in our policy," he said. "The government does not sponsor, nor create, nor is aware of training camps. If they were aware of any, they would go and dismantle them."

Zalmay M. Khalilzad, the American ambassador to Afghanistan, has stated publicly that Pakistan has not done nearly enough to stop the Taliban and other militants from using Pakistan's border areas as operational and recruiting bases.
In a speech in Washington in April, he warned that if Pakistan did not do the job on its side of the border, American forces would have to do the job themselves.
Source
 
*doh*
OK, I see now.

Gen Musharif is our associate. He understands that we can remove him as easily as we removed Hussein. So he has decided to ally his country to ours. Smart political move. Not smart enough, keeping our guys from working openly in his country but sometimes you gotta play the game. As for SA, you won't find a poitician (outside some extreme faction) that would take them on. Crude is the magic that makes the entire world operate.
 
Great speech. So basically your statement boils down to: We should all give Bush a free pass to a second term because stuff is too important for childish things like politics. Dont make a change mid stream when theres a war a foot! It doesnt matter what you think of him! National Security is more important then the democratic process. If you vote against Bush you vote against America! Environment/Abortion/Defecit/Education/Corporate Welfare/Jobs/Foriegn Relations/etc. dont matter! Get your priorities straight! *picture of twin towers* *flag* *patriotic music*

Well what a convenient approach this is eh?

The truth behind the charge is irrelevent if the charge is repeated often enough. They are using the media (NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, CNN, al Jazeera) to help spread the allegations. The day of journalism is behind us & the day of spin doctors & sound bites has ovetaken us. Repeat a lie often enough & it becomes allegorical truth.

What was that about Rush Limbaugh? What was that about all AM right wing radio screed? Works both ways you realize right? In fact maybe its the left thats been taking notes from the right for the past 20 years of right wing domination on the AM band. Make shit up and say it enough and youll get people to vote against their best interest. What a concept!
 
Hey, if you disagree with Bush on substantive issues vote him out of office. That's why we have elections.

Don't invoke national security issues as politics.

Rush Limbaugh, Jeneanne Buffalo, Glenn Beck, etc are not JOURNALISTS. They are commentators. Huge difference.
 
He understands that we can remove him as easily as we removed Hussein.

Kind of trivializes all the work of the servicemen and women in Iraq, don't you think? I suspect the people who lost friends and loved ones in Iraq might disagree that it was so "easy."
 
30 days later he was gone. An incredibly low death count, on both sides. Considering it was a war, no, I don't believe it trivializes anything. It also doesn't sell short the sacrifices made by our fantasic military.
 
Gonz said:
30 days later he was gone. An incredibly low death count, on both sides. Considering it was a war, no, I don't believe it trivializes anything. It also doesn't sell short the sacrifices made by our fantasic military.

You act like it's over. The final accounting is hardly complete, despite protestations to the contrary.
 
Those would be terrorists. The Iraqi's were soundly defeated & have since begun a new government.
 
soundly defeated? that's why there are still attacks on all the troops that are in iraq, right?
the majority has been defeated, but the war is by no means over. resistance is picking up the last few months, and you know just as well that the war didn't go as smooth as a lot of people thought it would go.

the military of the coalition did a very good job, but it would be quite arrogant (and untrue) to say that the war is over.
 
Gonz said:
Those would be terrorists. The Iraqi's were soundly defeated & have since begun a new government.



arent there still Iraqis who are attacking coalition forces?
 
Yeah? You know this.... how? :alienhuh: You been taking polls of the militia? :rofl3:

*Gonz with clipboard in the middle of Iraq.

"So, I understand that you are an evil militia terrorist. What nationality are you?"
"Die, American infidel!"
"Yes, that's nice, but what country do you come from?"
"Scum of the universe, I rub my shoes all over your face!!!"
"Er.... yes, but where-?"
"You are a dog!!! Die in the name of Allah!!!!"​
*

:alienhuh:
 
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