Whoa...drama...

Professur said:
Bish, try to not be so open minded that your brain falls out. If you go into a synagogue wearing a SS pin on your collar, you're being deliberately offensive and confrontational. Wearing horns and a tail are pretty frowned upon in a Catholic church. Feeling up your gay partner in a well known anti-gay establishment seems pretty deliberate too. They were being provocative, and got clipped. You know it, I know it, they know it.
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They were being a loving couple and were in the wrong location.
If they were 'feeling each other up' and actually in the church, sure. Walk along Ste-Catherine street one afternoon near Bishop and you can see people doing far more on the lawns of St.James M-F or in the Diocesan Park for that matter.

They weren't 'feeling each other up'... hugging someone or giving them a kiss on the cheek isn't even remotely close to 'feeling each other up' - unless you consider what I do to my kids every day in the morning and at night, 'feeling them up'.

Their sexual preference has nothing to do with what I was saying...try picking on someone else, eh.

What I was asking is: Since when are guards allowed to handcuff and detain anyone..especially for something that is not illegal?
 
As to the bolded part, I'd say they may or may not be private guards, or perhaps they're like our Metro cops, who do have the power to detain and restrain.
 
"They became argumentative and used profanity and refused to leave the property," she said. The church did not immediately respond to a request for more comment.

Police later arrived and both men were cited with misdemeanor trespassing, Salt Lake City Police Sgt. Robin Snyder said.

"It doesn't matter what they were asked to leave for," Snyder said. "If they are asked to leave and don't they are ... trespassing."
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They are making a "citizen's arrest" when they detain you, and holding you for the police.
 
spike said:
When the church leads the charge to deny them equal rights, uses shock therapy to "cure" them, and says homosexuality makes men "servants of Satan forever", and even approves of violence towards I'm going to go ahead and call it hate.
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You said Mormons hate gays. That means Mormons the people. Don't try to lie your way out of that. You're simply not good enough at playing semantics. Then, you tried to rationalize it however you wanted, which was to say that the church said and did all these things (without even providing proof of any of it, let alone all of what you said). By your rationale, you approved of the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and you approved of Guantanamo Bay. After all, if an organization doing something at the top level means that all the members are the exact same say, then how is it any different for a government and its citizens?

You accuse people pf making hasty generalizations and yet you're just as guilty. Why the hypocrisy?
 
Cerise said:
They are making a "citizen's arrest" when they detain you, and holding you for the police.
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They were handcuffed first...check your timeline.

First they were stopped for hugging and a kiss on the cheek.
Then they were 'arrested and handcuffed'
Then they became argumentative and verbally abusive and refused to leave.

A citizen's arrest is done if you spy someone committing a crime... again, what felony did they commit?

Each state, with the exception of North Carolina, permits citizen arrests if the commission of a felony is witnessed by the arresting citizen, or when a citizen is asked to assist in the apprehension of a suspect by police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanors, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party. American citizens do not carry the authority or enjoy the legal protections of police, and are held to the principle of strict liability before the courts of civil- and criminal law including but not limited to any infringement of another's rights.[30]

Though North Carolina General Statutes have no provision for citizen's arrests, detention by private persons is permitted and apply to both civilians and police officers outside their jurisdiction.[31] Detention is permitted where probable cause exists that one has committed a felony, breach of peace, physical injury to another person, or theft or destruction of property.[32] Detention is different from an arrest in that in a detention the detainee may not be transported without consent.
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Frankly...I couldn't care less...but these are certainly questions that the guards should get answered before the lawsuit for illegal arrest comes down 'pon their pointy heads.
 
I think whoever wrote that story created the misleading timeline.

First they were stopped for hugging and a kiss on the cheek.
Then they were 'arrested and handcuffed'
Then they became argumentative and verbally abusive and refused to leave.
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It makes it seem like they were standing there arrested and handcuffed, but were saying "No, we're not going to leave!"
 
More likely, one guard showed up and started harrasing them...then their buddies showed up and really put the pressure on and before they knew it, the two were being handcuffed.

Gay or straight, they weren't doing anything illegal and I'd expect the overzealous guards to get in shit for sticking their noses in where it didn't belong and taking the 'arrest' too far.
 
MrBishop said:
More likely, one guard showed up and started harrasing them...then their buddies showed up and really put the pressure on and before they knew it, the two were being handcuffed.

Gay or straight, they weren't doing anything illegal and I'd expect the overzealous guards to get in shit for sticking their noses in where it didn't belong and taking the 'arrest' too far.
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Perhaps, but you're talking Utah. Mormons carry a big stick there. The french are protesting wimmen being switched for wearing pants in the Sudan, but that doesn't carry much more with their courts than you will in Utah.
 
Yeah, I'm sure this church has a long history of arresting anyone who steps on their property. :laugh:
 
MrBishop said:
They were handcuffed first...check your timeline.

First they were stopped for hugging and a kiss on the cheek.
Then they were 'arrested and handcuffed'
Then they became argumentative and verbally abusive and refused to leave.

A citizen's arrest is done if you spy someone committing a crime... again, what felony did they commit?
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You're jumping to the conclusion that the security guards arrested and handcuffed the pair. The story does not say that. In fact, it doesn't say who arrested and handcuffed them at all. You assumed it was the security guards. I assumed it was the police. If other guards had to come to get them off the property, then, at that point, they were being argumentative and verbally abusive. If that is the way it panned out, then you have the scenario I assumed... i.e. stopped by security then, later, arrested and handcuffed by the police. Nothing else makes any sense...
 
spike said:
Yeah, I'm sure this church has a long history of arresting anyone who steps on their property. :laugh:
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At least they don't have a long history of stoning to death or otherwise killing anyone who believes contrary to their dogma. :shrug:
 
Gato_Solo said:
You're jumping to the conclusion that the security guards arrested and handcuffed the pair. The story does not say that. In fact, it doesn't say who arrested and handcuffed them at all. You assumed it was the security guards. I assumed it was the police. If other guards had to come to get them off the property, then, at that point, they were being argumentative and verbally abusive. If that is the way it panned out, then you have the scenario I assumed... i.e. stopped by security then, later, arrested and handcuffed by the police. Nothing else makes any sense...
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Good point....

When they refused to leave, I'm quite sure it gave ample opportunity for the police to arrive and arrest them. Cuffs are just part of the drill after that. If nothing else they are guilty of trespassing. There is no civil rights issue here. Put down the picket signs and back away slowly!
 
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