oh gods, the slippery slope.......

[Gonz]

With the public option in place you have the choice to keep your private insurance so the insurance companies can steal other people's money to pay for your medical bills.

Until your insurance carrier/company/personal need requires any change whatosever. At that point, you are required, under fedreal law, to take the government option.

You will have to pay taxes (or let them steal money if you're a drama queen) for roads, fire departments, police, etc.

Taxes pay for things that are constitutionally mandated. Theft pays for the other stuff (SSA, medicare, welfare, UI, GM stock options)

 

[Inkara1]

Did you hear about Mickey Mouse trying to get a divorce?

His lawyer told him that Minnie getting a little crazy is probably not good grounds for divorce. Mickey said: "I didn't say she's crazy. I said she's fucking Goofy!"

 

[spike]

Good - becuase its none of your fucking business what my children learn or shoot at school.

What are you fucking talking about?

So you don't think there much danger of private insurance disappearing.

Nope, private insurance insurance would have to really suck in comparison to go away.

Would you be willing to allow for a trigger in the bill that would guarantee it? Maybe something to the extent that if ANY of the promises (free-will, taxes, rationing, illegal aliens even if ordered by the SCOTUS, lack of Px etc. ) are broken that the public option is disbanded immediately and free market gets opened wide with less regulation?

Take away all the peoples insurance that are using the public option immediately? That would be extremely dangerous and dumb. Probably better to get the bill right in the first place.

Devil's advocate: Wouldn't that get rid of a bunch of the rich people

Does making your company more efficient decrease the number of rich people? Dunno, but I don't think so.

 

[Inkara1]

By cutting on administrative costs, wouldn't that involve laying off some of the higher-ups in the company, or involve paying them less, either of which would reduce the amount paid in income taxes? Again, devil's advocate here.

 

[spike]

Until your insurance carrier/company/personal need requires any change whatosever. At that point, you are required, under fedreal law, to take the government option.

That's more misinformation. I don't suppose you have reliable ink for that one.

Taxes pay for things that are constitutionally mandated. Theft pays for the other stuff (SSA, medicare, welfare, UI, GM stock options)

No, actually taxes pay mandated and not mandated (like fire and police).

18,000 deaths a year from lack of insurance.

 

[Gonz]

Once again...

FIRE and POLICE are state & local taxation codes, not federal.

Not one person has ever died from "lack of insurance".

 

[spike]

Once again...

FIRE and POLICE are state & local taxation codes, not federal.

Once again it doesn't matter shit just doesn't cease to be "communism" or "theft" depending on whether their local or federal. So you logic is not valid.

Plus they often get federal money.

Not one person has ever died from "lack of insurance".

No, they died because they didn't have insurance to get their illness treated.

Looks like it's gotten worse.


Harvard Study Finds Nearly 45,000 Excess Deaths Annually Linked To Lack Of Health Coverage

 

[ResearchMonkey]

That's more misinformation. I don't suppose you have reliable ink for that one.

Yeah, its called House Resolution 3200. Read it.

I am simply amazed you have managed to survive this long. How are you able to type?

 

[spike]

Yeah, its called House Resolution 3200. Read it.

So you have a link proving this claim of Gonz's? I've been reading it and haven't found it. Have you read it? If you have and have found this part quote it and link me up.

 

[Professur]

Until your insurance carrier/company/personal need requires any change whatosever. At that point, you are required, under fedreal law, to take the government option.

That's more misinformation. I don't suppose you have reliable ink for that one.

He may not be able to, but I can produce a documented example. Quebec compulsory drug plan

Taxes pay for things that are constitutionally mandated. Theft pays for the other stuff (SSA, medicare, welfare, UI, GM stock options)

No, actually taxes pay mandated and not mandated (like fire and police).

Actually, quite a lot of smaller towns have gone to fee-based service for fire and police. Lots of people opted to not pay ... and were the first to cry like babies when they needed those services and were told to go fuck themselves.

18,000 deaths a year from lack of insurance.

Speaking of mis-information. Noone ever died from a lack of insurance. They died from a lack of treatment. I know it's important for your position to keep the blame on the insurance companies, but at least don't lie blatantly.

I reiterate. Insurance is a business. It's supposed to make money. Take a good long look at your financial system and the shambles it's in. Your housing industry. Why are they so fucked? Because the gov't stuck their noses in and insisted that banks make loans to people who never had a fucking chance of paying them off. People who, under the old rules, never would have qualified for loans. When they defaulted, you, the tax payer, was left holding the bag ... a bag refilled from your pockets (and youir grandchildren's) by the gov't. Oddly enough, they paid more into that bag than would have been needed to buy a house outright for every person in the fucking country. And these are the ones you're so desperate to hand control of the health insurance industry????

 

[spike]

He may not be able to, but I can produce a documented example. Quebec compulsory drug plan

Kinda opposite of what he said... "If you are eligible for a private plan, you must join that plan. Otherwise, you must register for the public plan."

See Gonz was thinking you'd be forced on the public option and this is encouraging you to use private plans.

Actually, quite a lot of smaller towns have gone to fee-based service for fire and police. Lots of people opted to not pay ... and were the first to cry like babies when they needed those services and were told to go fuck themselves.

Yeah, that's dumb. Doesn't sound like a for-profit system though, which would be even dumber. You know what would be profitable? More fires.

18,000 deaths a year from lack of insurance.

Speaking of mis-information. Noone ever died from a lack of insurance. They died from a lack of treatment. I know it's important for your position to keep the blame on the insurance companies, but at least don't lie blatantly.

Already covered I guess you're not reading very closely.

No, they died because they didn't have insurance to get their illness treated.

Also, notice the big increase if you missed that somehow too.

I reiterate. Insurance is a business. It's supposed to make money.

Precisely the problem. We should get away from that.

Take a good long look at your financial system and the shambles it's in. Your housing industry. Why are they so fucked? Because the gov't stuck their noses in and insisted that banks make loans to people who never had a fucking chance of paying them off.

No, it's in a shambles because they deregulated and there was a bunch of greed in the mortgage companies. The government should have stepped in more.

And these are the ones you're so desperate to hand control of the health insurance industry????

Yes, government healthcare has worked better than ours in 30+ other countries. We pay 50% more than any of them and yet have worse results. We have many millions who aren't covered at all. Insurance companies drop you when you get sick and need them the most. You can't get insurance often with pre-existing conditions.

Hell yeah I want to fix this fucked up system.

 

[Gonz]

No, they died because they didn't have insurance to get their illness treated.

Then pay for it. Sell your house. Sell your stocks. Pony up your 401(k). Hell, sell your car, your TV & your fucking grandmothers china. Life or stuff. You chose.

As for the link, I've already provided the section that said if one thing changes, you must opt into the federal plan. I'll see if can locate it again.

 

[spike]

Then pay for it. Sell your house. Sell your stocks. Pony up your 401(k). Hell, sell your car, your TV & your fucking grandmothers china. Life or stuff. You chose.

A lot of people don't have that stuff. But many people do what you said. 65% pf bankruptcies are tied to medical bills. Most of those even had insurance. This shit is broken beyond belief.

Sixty-two percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses, according to a nationwide study released today by the American Journal of Medicine. That's nearly 20 percentage points higher than that pool of respondents reported were connected to medical costs in 2001.

Of those who filed for bankruptcy in 2007, nearly 80 percent had health insurance. Respondents who reported having insurance indicated average expenses of just under $18,000. Respondents who filed and lacked insurance had average medical bills of nearly $27,000.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-reform/2009/06/new_study_shows_medical_bills.html

I'll see if can locate it again.

Thank you.

 

[Gonz]

This shit is broken beyond belief.

Then petition the government to repeal all regulations & laws requiring what private insurance companies must cover & allow free & open (nationwide) competition.

 

[spike]

Nah. that wouldn't fix it. I'm going with plans that have been a proven success. It's the only rational thing.

 

[Gonz]

Without those laws & regualtions, healthcare was affordable.

With them, it's not.

Proven? I think so.

 

[spike]

Without those laws & regualtions, healthcare was affordable.

Nope, we had tons of uninsured that couldn't afford it for a long time. Had that pre-existing problem and companies dropping sick people. Proven not to work.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Nope, we had tons of uninsured that couldn't afford it for a long time. Had that pre-existing problem and companies dropping sick people. Proven not to work.

The pre-existing condition is a solvable issue. I've met with my rep and he too believes that is solvable. Why would that require a complete overhaul of everything else?

How can you say "proven" when the market is closed? Or is it closed to assist in making health care unobtainable by some people? FREE MARKET (even china knows that)

 

[randomJACKASS]

See that more than anything is the problem with cons. Take something that is proven not to work and they say exert more effort in the proven failed policy! It's just fear of change nothing more, and fortunately times are changing more rapidly than ever and it is only a matter of time until that attitude dies off and becomes a thing of the past....

 

[spike]

The pre-existing condition is a solvable issue. I've met with my rep and he too believes that is solvable. Why would that require a complete overhaul of everything else?

Yes, it is solvable. We're working on it now. Everything else would not be overhauled. A public option will be created. You can keep your existing coverage if you like it.

How can you say "proven" when the market is closed? Or is it closed to assist in making health care unobtainable by some people? FREE MARKET (even china knows that)

I'm not sure what you're saying here. It's proven because various styles of government systems have shown to be very effective and more efficient.