oh gods, the slippery slope.......

[Gonz]

Pre-existing condition. Let's see, my wife has 3 or 4 of those. We've always managed to pay our bills, even with this problem.

Pre-existing condition.
Hmmm, that means that the payee will be required to outlay more than they bring in. Whether its Blue Cross or Government Motors, it's a bad plan.

Option A- have client pay more, to cover their costs & a reasonable profit, which will allow the carrier to cover some people who would not otherwise be covered.

Option B-Let the government handle everything, including the denials, with no alternative.

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED.

Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first
day of Y1.

(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law,

the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.

VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00016 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H320

also read Section (b)...the private insurer has 5 years to rxactly match federal terms or the coverage is cancelled.

 

[Gonz]

See that more than anything is the problem with cons....

blah blah blah. How about adding something to back your statement up instead of treading water.

Take something that is proven not to work and they say exert more effort in the proven failed policy!

The only proven failure is government intervention.

As with the "housing crisis", undue overregualtion has created a need for the subject (banks or insurers) to take more risks, which means higher costs.

Get the gov't out of these things & the market will kick in, lowering costs & incentivizing the subjects to continue cost cutting.

Requiring a standard issue health insurance cover mental health, prescriptions & vaccinations raises costs for everybody. Having those who need these services pay a seperate premium, lowers the standard premium considerably.

The only thing I'm afraid of is you & spikes idea of fairness.

 

[spike]

Pre-existing condition. Let's see, my wife has 3 or 4 of those. We've always managed to pay our bills, even with this problem.

Pre-existing condition.
Hmmm, that means that the payee will be required to outlay more than they bring in. Whether its Blue Cross or Government Motors, it's a bad plan.

Option A- have client pay more, to cover their costs & a reasonable profit, which will allow the carrier to cover some people who would not otherwise be covered.

Option B-Let the government handle everything, including the denials, with no alternative.

Option C- Public option if you want it.

also read Section (b)...the private insurer has 5 years to rxactly match federal terms or the coverage is cancelled.

Yeah, we did go over this before. It doesn't say what you claimed. It keeps your insurance company from screwing you by changing terms and conditions.

It even gives insurers 5 years to meet guidelines. I like it. So it's not forcing people to the public option it's keeping insurance companies honest. Totally different from what you claimed.

 

[spike]

The only proven failure is government intervention.

No, the current system is the proven failure. Government intervention is the proven success as witnessed by 36 other countries. Why do you ignore facts?

As with the "housing crisis", undue overregualtion has created a need for the subject (banks or insurers) to take more risks, which means higher costs.

Deregulation caused the housing crisis.

Get the gov't out of these things & the market will kick in, lowering costs & incentivizing the subjects to continue cost cutting.

No, the incentive is profit. Healthy people aren't profitable. Fixing the problem isn't profitable. Repeat customers and prescriptions are profitable. It's designed wrong from the beginning.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

The best thing about the healthcare debate is the fact that the leftists agenda is showing its true colors as it goes down.

Man I love my United States of America

 

[randomJACKASS]

blah blah blah. How about adding something to back your statement up instead of treading water....

How about YOU show any defense for the hard numbers? Oh wait....Because YOU CAN'T?!?

Republican economics do not work, never have, never will but still they try and try the same things wishing for a different result. The real purpose is to add to the coffers of your rich overlords and you keep licking boots eagerly!

Granted the numbers were taken from 2005, but even you in your ignorance should be able to spot a trend. Admit the trend, well probably not, being as I have yet to see you admit ever being wrong, even when you clearly are!

Aggregate data from 1960 and 1980 to present (5-05)

1) Deficit (On Budget)

1961-present

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $1283.8 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $5487.4 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 1.77% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 3.42% of GDP

1981-present

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $1004.4 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $5280.1 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 2.06% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 4.09% of GDP

1a) Deficit (total)

Since World War II

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $625.1 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $4040.7 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 1.2% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 2% of GDP

1961-present

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $608.2 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $4013.2 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 1.21% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 2.37% of GDP

1981-present

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $320.3 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $3819.3 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 0.76% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 2.67% of GDP

2) GDP Growth

Since World War II

Average GDP growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 4.05%
Average GDP growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.88%

1961-present

Average GDP growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 4.09%
Average GDP growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.81%

1981-present

Average GDP growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 3.7%
Average GDP growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.81%

3) Business Investment Growth

Since World War II

Average growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 7.08%
Average growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.94%

1961-present

Average growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 7.2%
Average growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.95%

1981-present

Average growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 9.85%
Average growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.29%

4) Unemployment

Since World War II

Average unemployment per year during Democratic Presidents: 5.03%
Average unemployment per year during Republican Presidents: 5.93%

1961-present

Average unemployment per year during Democratic Presidents: 5.33%
Average unemployment per year during Republican Presidents: 6.24%

1981-present

Average unemployment per year during Democratic Presidents: 5.20%
Average unemployment per year during Republican Presidents: 6.41%

5) Growth in Jobs

Since World War II

Average yearly growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2,082,000
Average yearly growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1,167,000
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2.67%
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1.36%

1961-present

Average yearly growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2,391,000
Average yearly growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1,307,000
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2.69%
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1.39%

1981-present

Average yearly growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2,884,000
Average yearly growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1,253,000
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2.37%
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1.17%

6) Growth in Pay

Since World War II

Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Democratic Presidents: 0.83%
Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Republican Presidents: 0.408%

1961-present

Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Democratic Presidents: 0.48%
Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Republican Presidents: -0.30%

1981-present

Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Democratic Presidents: 0.84%
Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Republican Presidents: -0.34%

Republican economics....BIG FAT FAIL!!!



So, try it again, the same failed policies, maybe they will work this time?

 

[randomJACKASS]

Oh, Republicans bring recessions? No shit?!?

Trickle down economics....Stay fat and rich while your piss trickles down on the little guy and you fool him into thinking it is his own best interests.

 

[Gonz]

Oh, sorry. You're right. Let's try communism. After all, the rich don't need their own money.

 

[randomJACKASS]

Oh, sorry. You're right. Let's try communism. After all, the rich don't need their own money.

Aww, do the facts disagree with your vision of 'merica? As I said....Just keep forcing failed ideas. they might work someday huh? Nobody has suggested communism and you know it. But if you say it enough you might be able to scare the stupid! Maybe we can get Caribou Barbie as president. When she destroys the economy further who will you blame then?

The presidents write the budgets. The congress has to approve, but it is clear Republicans have a VERY poor track record!

 

[Gonz]

Nobody has suggested communism and you know it.

No? Who's paying for all these goodies?

The presidents write the budgets. The congress has to approve, but it is clear Republicans have a VERY poor track record!

See, you liberals even screw that up.

Section. 7.

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

 

[spike]

Oh, sorry. You're right. Let's try communism. After all, the rich don't need their own money.

OMG NOEZ THEY"RE TAKING ALL THEMONEY FROM THE RICH!@#! THE RICH DON"T HAVE ANY MONEY!

 

[randomJACKASS]

No? Who's paying for all these goodies?



See, you liberals even screw that up.

Why the childish refusal to look at the facts? Republican presidents have been far worse! Oh it doesn't fit with your agenda or the fantasy world you live in....Sorry!

 

[randomJACKASS]

By the way, all those numbers are taken directly from government stats, so no hiding behind the guise of unreliable stats this time!

 

[spike]

Republican economics do not work, never have, never will but still they try and try the same things wishing for a different result.

 

[Gonz]

Why the childish refusal to look at the facts? Republican presidents have been far worse! Oh it doesn't fit with your agenda or the fantasy world you live in....Sorry!

I supported Bush becasue of his foreign policy. His domestic policy was terrible, as I said many times.

You're trying to brand me something I'm not.

Quit playing gotcha & join the conversation.

 

[Gonz]

OMG NOEZ THEY"RE TAKING ALL THEMONEY FROM THE RICH!@#! THE RICH DON"T HAVE ANY MONEY!

Private property. I thought you supported it.

 

[randomJACKASS]

I supported Bush becasue of his foreign policy. His domestic policy was terrible, as I said many times.

You're trying to brand me something I'm not.

Quit playing gotcha & join the conversation.

Quit cherry picking your "facts"!

What about THESE?

Aggregate data from 1960 and 1980 to present (5-05)

1) Deficit (On Budget)

1961-present

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $1283.8 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $5487.4 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 1.77% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 3.42% of GDP

1981-present

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $1004.4 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $5280.1 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 2.06% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 4.09% of GDP

1a) Deficit (total)

Since World War II

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $625.1 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $4040.7 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 1.2% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 2% of GDP

1961-present

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $608.2 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $4013.2 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 1.21% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 2.37% of GDP

1981-present

Total Democratic Budget Deficits: $320.3 billion
Total Republican Budget Deficits: $3819.3 billion
Democratic Presidents’ deficits averaged 0.76% of GDP
Republican Presidents’ deficits averaged 2.67% of GDP

2) GDP Growth

Since World War II

Average GDP growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 4.05%
Average GDP growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.88%

1961-present

Average GDP growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 4.09%
Average GDP growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.81%

1981-present

Average GDP growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 3.7%
Average GDP growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.81%

3) Business Investment Growth

Since World War II

Average growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 7.08%
Average growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.94%

1961-present

Average growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 7.2%
Average growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.95%

1981-present

Average growth per year under Democratic Presidents: 9.85%
Average growth per year under Republican Presidents: 2.29%

4) Unemployment

Since World War II

Average unemployment per year during Democratic Presidents: 5.03%
Average unemployment per year during Republican Presidents: 5.93%

1961-present

Average unemployment per year during Democratic Presidents: 5.33%
Average unemployment per year during Republican Presidents: 6.24%

1981-present

Average unemployment per year during Democratic Presidents: 5.20%
Average unemployment per year during Republican Presidents: 6.41%

5) Growth in Jobs

Since World War II

Average yearly growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2,082,000
Average yearly growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1,167,000
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2.67%
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1.36%

1961-present

Average yearly growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2,391,000
Average yearly growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1,307,000
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2.69%
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1.39%

1981-present

Average yearly growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2,884,000
Average yearly growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1,253,000
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Democratic Presidents: 2.37%
Average yearly percent growth in jobs under Republican Presidents: 1.17%

6) Growth in Pay

Since World War II

Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Democratic Presidents: 0.83%
Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Republican Presidents: 0.408%

1961-present

Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Democratic Presidents: 0.48%
Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Republican Presidents: -0.30%

1981-present

Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Democratic Presidents: 0.84%
Average yearly growth in weekly earnings under Republican Presidents: -0.34%

Democrats and the economy

* Eight of the last nine recessions have been under Republican presidents
* Democratic presidents create twice as many jobs per year as Republican presidents.
* Republican presidents' deficits are three times higher than Democrats' and twice as high as a percent of GDP.
* The economy grows 41% faster under Democratic presidents.
* Businesses invest three times as much under Democratic presidents.


The answer is in the in-depth analysis of economic facts that track how the economy performed under Republican and Democratic presidents. Data compiled here come from official government sources, such as Statistical Abstracts of the United States, Economic Reports of the president, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), and the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). These tables all show the precise sources. That data tracks the performance of Democratic and Republican presidents from World War II to the current Republican administration. Similar comparisons were made from 1961 and 1981 to date. In the more recent periods, the Republicans do worse and the Democratic presidents generally do better. The trends seen then are confirmed and emphasized during the Clinton and Bush administrations. These tables were also calculated on the assumption that the economy of the United States during a president�s first year in office is attributed to the previous administration, since the US federal budget is drawn up a year before it takes affect. The differences observed were not large enough to warrant inclusion.

Way to duck the question! How do you breathe with your head buried so deep in the sand?

 

[Gonz]

OK, Republicans spend too much. If they were to follow a conservative lead & follow the constitution, they'd drop 90% of federal spending.

 

[randomJACKASS]

OK, Republicans spend too much. If they were to follow a conservative lead & follow the constitution, they'd drop 90% of federal spending.

Wow! I can say it backwards....WOW!

 

[randomJACKASS]

You know I am not even about to say Democrats have the answer, but the simple fact is, that tax and spend will balance out better than tax and borrow EVERY time!