What to buy for the EIGHTIES WAGON

[paul_valaru]

Oh, and by the way, any suggestions for a new car for my dad?

He wants a small station wagon that gets good mileage and has an automatic. Something like the Mazda 6 V6 automatic wagon.

I saw that, and I saw the Subaru Impreza WRX wagon.

Something with a decently strong engine (200+ hp I would say) and good cargo room, not that expensive.

Then he wants to look for a $500 beat up Jeep manual and drive for fun, since his daily driver will be automatic.

"In 2008, I'll be 50! Driving a manual, probably not."

dodge magnum srt?

and if you get a manual tranny, no shifting without clutch, no heel and toe, no fucking around, press that clutch all the way down. Learn to drive it properly THEN learn to play around, don't be like those young civic drivers that replace the clutch every 6 months

 

[tonksy]

If you were a spoiled rich kid your care wouldn't be from 97
I hope he gives you a good deal on it.

 

[K62]

dodge magnum srt?

and if you get a manual tranny, no shifting without clutch, no heel and toe, no fucking around, press that clutch all the way down. Learn to drive it properly THEN learn to play around, don't be like those young civic drivers that replace the clutch every 6 months

Yeah, good advise.

I double clutch while down shifting and rev match. Makes for really smooth downshifts. That's aboooot it!

 

[HomeLAN]

dodge magnum srt?

Try SXT. That's the one with the bigger 6-banger.

The SRT (8) is running that 370 hemi he's referring to. It'll be a blast, but gas will eat him alive.

I've been thrilled with mine, and I bought first model year. Tell your old man that while the model is new, that drive train's been around the block for a couple years. It's not as risky as he thinks.

 

[Inkara1]

Yours is only () the R/T, not the SRT-8.

 

[HomeLAN]

Correct! I'm running the 348 CID engine, with the MDS system. As a result I merely get bad gas mileage.

The SRT8's will run the 370, with no MDS. Say hello to unbelievably bad mileage.

 

[Inkara1]

Does the 370 need premium? That'll make things more costly too... actually, does yours need premium or midgrade, or can it run on 87?

 

[HomeLAN]

It runs on mid-grade.

 

[Altron]

My dad doesn't think much of downshifting.

"You can downshift, or you can use the brakes. It depends on whether you want to replace the clutch or the brakes. The brakes are cheaper."

The Magnum doesn't do much for him.

He really likes wagons though.

ATM, two best choices seem to be -

Mazda 6s Sport Wagon

Subaru WRX Sport Wagon

He wants to stay away from SUVs and American cars.

IMO Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, and Volkswagen Passat are lame.

The newer Maxima doesn't do it for him either.

 

[Professur]

My dad doesn't think much of downshifting.

"You can downshift, or you can use the brakes. It depends on whether you want to replace the clutch or the brakes. The brakes are cheaper."

I've heard that before. My usual reply is, "would you only use the brakes on three wheels to save a few bucks too?"

Downshifting (poorly) might take 6 months off the life of a clutch. It might also shorten your braking distance by 20'. You make the call.

But. If you're downshifting properly, there shouldn't be any wear at all on the clutch. People that drop from fifth to second aren't doing it right, y'know.

 

[Altron]

I don't think he's saying 'Never downshift'.
If there's a wreck 100 feet in front of you and you're doing 40, you had better downshift and put the brake pedal into the floor.
But if you don't need to, it's more wear on the clutch.

 

[Dave]

Subaru WRX Sport Wagon


He wants to stay away from SUVs and American cars.

IMO Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, and Volkswagen Passat are lame.

The newer Maxima doesn't do it for him either.

the WRX is a blast to drive. excellent handling and it gets out of its own way in a hurry. (i had a WRX sedan)

currently driving an Accord Coupe. it is easily the most comfortable driver i've owned. good power and brakes, decent handling too.

 

[Winky]

brakes are dirt cheap
(I do my own brake jobs)
downshifting doesn't wear out a clutch

 

[HomeLAN]

He really likes wagons though.

ATM, two best choices seem to be -

Mazda 6s Sport Wagon

Subaru WRX Sport Wagon

Between the two, I'd get the WRX.

 

[Altron]

He just put the deposit on a Mazda 6.

2005 model
9,000 miles
V6 wagon
the 'rich sob' package with heated leather seats, sunroof, spoiler, etc.
$19,000 before taxes and registration and stuff
$20,400 after

Pretty sweet deal, considering that a 2006 model with the same feautures is $29,000 before taxes and stuff.

Still torn between Maxima and the battle cruiser.

I don't really like the appearance of the Maxima, excluding the wheels and the foglights. The seat doesn't go far back enough. My right foot is fine, but in order to have my left foot over the clutch without pushing on it, it's slightly uncomfortable. If the clutch is down, it's fine, or if my foot is to the left of the clutch, it's fine.

The problem is my commute. It's where more than half of my driving takes place. There are seven hills and ten stop lights in those five miles. Three of them are on hills. It took a very short time to learn that going from stop to go on a hill isn't that fun, especially when the dumb fuck behind you gets so close that you seriously risk hitting him while trying to get the clutch to bite. They inch up until they're a few inches from your bumper, on a 15% grade. During rush hour traffic, it's all stop-and-go bumper to bumper up those hills. I will probably stop and go five times on each of those hill stoplights.

The other problem is the gas pedal. Right now I have a 2"x12" hinged gas pedal that has a pretty high resistance. The Maxima has a 1"x4" gas pedal with very low resistance and no hinge. It's annoying as hell, because I'm used to having really precise control over the RPMs, but the Maxima gas pedal is more difficult to keep at a certain distance. I suppose, though, that I can either get used to it, which shouldn't be too bad, as my old car, the Mazda MX-6, had a very similar pedal. Or I could always build a big hinged monstrosity to attach it to. Or bolt a spring between the gas pedal and the dashboard.

The thing that gets me, though, is the difficulty of moving very slowly. In the wagon, I can drop it into drive and will move at a walking speed until I give it some juice. In the Maxima, it's either doing 2k RPM in first, or it's coasting, or it's stopped. I suppose that I'll get the hang of it when I drive more.

But it's got awesome handling and sticks to the road like glue. It's an interesting feeling, making a turn without having the back wheels spin. It's also amazing how much faster you can take turns with bucket seats. There's a reason why they don't put bench seats in fast cars much. My days of having to worry about ending up in the passenger seat if I turn left are over.

But the boat is just so damn awesome! The gas mileage sucks, the brakes, tires, and shocks all need to be replaced, the engine dislikes starting but likes stalling (I stall more in the automatic wagon than in the manual Maxima). But it's so damn awesome! I spend twice as much as gas and need to spend a month's income on tires, brakes, and shocks, but it's so damn awesome!

Prof's right as usual, I gotta get a Buick Grand National. The style and displacement of the wagon, the handling and speed of the Maxima.

I just gotta keep thinking 'My days of cruising around in a huge V8 are not over, they are on temporary hold until the funds and knowledge to own and maintain a huge V8 are acquired, estimated 2010-2015.

 

[Professur]

My old Subaru had a feature that I'll miss 'til the end of my days. A hill-holder brake. When you braked and clutched, it would hold the brake until you released the clutch. Sweet.


But ... let's be honest. All you lack is practice. And as for comfort ... try this. In the wagon, on a quiet road, brake with the wrong foot. Odds are, you'll eat steering wheel the first time. It's all a matter of getting used to the feel. I spend most of my time hopping between my manual '91 Sonoma, a '93 Mirage, and a '97 transport minivan. I do it so much, that all three feel familiar now. But before, when 90% of my driving was the work truck (took it home during the week) and I only drove the car home on friday night and back on monday morning... it would take a minute or two to readjust.

That said, take the Maxima to a loading ramp, and without using the gas, practice with the clutch until you can just hold the car still at the friction point. I don't care how big the car is, or how puny the engine, you can do this in any manual car. Forward or backwards. With practice.

My uncle in Scotland was in the army. He told me about how they tested drivers for their heavy vehicle licenses. They'd take them to a hill, and make them stop half way up, and shut down the truck. Then they'd put a matchbox behind a wheel. They then had to start off again. Crush the box, you failed.

The final word on the matter is, of course, yours. But don't let silly things like driving hills and traffic scare you off. Sure, in traffic and hills, an automatic tranny is idiotproof. But you're not an idiot, and a manual box isn't rocket science. If you want to stay with the automatic, do it because you choose to do it, not because you think you have to.

 

[Inkara1]

I do the brake trick too -- I keep my right foot on the brake and let the left foot out until the dashboard shudders a little bit, then I take my foot off the brake and give it some gas. I use that trick for backing out of my parents' driveway all the time.

Also, you'll get used to the positioning of the clutch. Most of the time, you'll want your foot to not be on the clutch anyway, so to the left should be fine... and if you're going to be stopped for a little bit, it's best to put the tranny in neutral and let off the clutch to save wear on the throwout bearing.

 

[Altron]

My old Subaru had a feature that I'll miss 'til the end of my days. A hill-holder brake. When you braked and clutched, it would hold the brake until you released the clutch. Sweet.


But ... let's be honest. All you lack is practice. And as for comfort ... try this. In the wagon, on a quiet road, brake with the wrong foot. Odds are, you'll eat steering wheel the first time. It's all a matter of getting used to the feel. I spend most of my time hopping between my manual '91 Sonoma, a '93 Mirage, and a '97 transport minivan. I do it so much, that all three feel familiar now. But before, when 90% of my driving was the work truck (took it home during the week) and I only drove the car home on friday night and back on monday morning... it would take a minute or two to readjust.

That said, take the Maxima to a loading ramp, and without using the gas, practice with the clutch until you can just hold the car still at the friction point. I don't care how big the car is, or how puny the engine, you can do this in any manual car. Forward or backwards. With practice.

My uncle in Scotland was in the army. He told me about how they tested drivers for their heavy vehicle licenses. They'd take them to a hill, and make them stop half way up, and shut down the truck. Then they'd put a matchbox behind a wheel. They then had to start off again. Crush the box, you failed.

The final word on the matter is, of course, yours. But don't let silly things like driving hills and traffic scare you off. Sure, in traffic and hills, an automatic tranny is idiotproof. But you're not an idiot, and a manual box isn't rocket science. If you want to stay with the automatic, do it because you choose to do it, not because you think you have to.

I do occasionally use my left foot on the brake, especially at lights. It's not nearly as precise as my right, but I don't nearly go through the windshield when I do it.

You both bring up good points.

Luckily for me, the mall about two miles away is falling apart. Half of it is closed and there's a parking lot with a square of about a quarter mile on each side. It's where I've done most of my Maxima driving.

Think I'll head out there soon.

 

[Professur]

That's how I was taught. Empty parking lot, and a whole lot of stop, first, second, stop, first, second, stop.

You do know that you're not supposed to shift gears in the middle of an intersection, doncha? Set yourself up a few intersections (if the lines are still visible) and practice getting through in one gear.

Then, when you're all done, and confident, make sure there's nothing withing 100 yards of you and try this. Put the car in reverse. Make sure your belt is good and tight. Put your right arm on the back of the seat beside you. Turn so that you're looking out the back. Left arm at the 12-1 o'clock postion on the wheel. Start off backwards. Snap the wheel to the left, and floor it. And hang on for dear life.

In a tight space, this can be aided by pulling on the hand brake between half and three quarters. But pulling the brake usually means you're not looking out the back, so you're not looking where you're going ... and that's a bad thing.

 

[chcr]

Seriously, after you've been driving it for two weeks it will seem perfectly natural. At that point, if you got back into the Olds, that would feel weird.