only for US citizens
- Thread starter Luis G
- Start date
Funny thing that you talk about "diverting from the truth".
Doesn't seem funny that Germany, the country that lost two WW, is the country that is "most against" an attack to Irak?, i guess they learnt their lesson.
Irak hasn't done anything to the world in the past years, why should they start now?, they are even negotiating with the UN. To my eyes, the USA is the country that doesn't want to negotiate with the UN.
Doesn't seem funny that Germany, the country that lost two WW, is the country that is "most against" an attack to Irak?, i guess they learnt their lesson.
Irak hasn't done anything to the world in the past years, why should they start now?, they are even negotiating with the UN. To my eyes, the USA is the country that doesn't want to negotiate with the UN.
Jeslek
Banned
Luis G said:
We own the UN. Besides, I don't think the US cares to deal with a bunch of dipshits from third world countries that couldn't care less if another million Americans die.
But thats OK, we will save the world again. Last century was hm, what, 3? 4? This will be the first time this century.
Oh and Iraq isn't negotiating. They are either stalling for time, or trying to rival support by pretending to be negotiating. Or both.
I'm actualy quite sad that I'm not in the USAF right now. I would give anything to go and defend my country (and through that the EU too, eventually). I have a very, very strong drive right now to join up and go and do something for my country. Maybe it is just me though.
First of all, they are "negotiating" with the UN becuase they have to. They still have trade sanctions against them and until the UN Inspectors are allowed full access, they will. I would imagine this is what Iraq is "negotiating" about, as they do not want the UN to know they have chemical weapons, and a very advanced nuclear weapons program.
The fact that Germany is against the attack on Iraq doesn't really mean much to me, perhaps you can explain the significance of losing two WW and them being against this to me.
Past few years? Well it wasn't too long ago that they tried to take Kuwait, because they wanted a shipyard. I've seen the way they treat thier people. Thier own people are treated like animals, there is no respect for human life unless you are part of the Royal family, otherwise the rest of the people are just to be used as he sees fit. You can argue that that is culture, and therefore, none of our business, but when you have gross acts of human rights being violated, there is a time you step in and fight someone elses fight.
Don't think for a second I wouldn't kick someones ass for calling you a fucking gringo if we were walking down the street together, it may not be my fight, but it is violating a principle I hold dear.
The fact that Germany is against the attack on Iraq doesn't really mean much to me, perhaps you can explain the significance of losing two WW and them being against this to me.
Past few years? Well it wasn't too long ago that they tried to take Kuwait, because they wanted a shipyard. I've seen the way they treat thier people. Thier own people are treated like animals, there is no respect for human life unless you are part of the Royal family, otherwise the rest of the people are just to be used as he sees fit. You can argue that that is culture, and therefore, none of our business, but when you have gross acts of human rights being violated, there is a time you step in and fight someone elses fight.
Don't think for a second I wouldn't kick someones ass for calling you a fucking gringo if we were walking down the street together, it may not be my fight, but it is violating a principle I hold dear.
HomeLAN
New Member
Interesting stuff, here. A few thoughts...
Iraq is not a direct enemy? Bullshit. Financially, geographically, and logistically, Hussein's government is unquestionably guilty of supporting terrorism at a state level. Last time I checked, terrorism is what we were fighting against.
Bush just wants to finish Daddy's job? That's pretty weak. I think he's responding to a direct attack on the United States. Certainly someone needs to get their head out of their ass, but I don't believe that problem lies on this side of the Atlantic. Think about this, our dear European "allies", if these idiots succeed in cowing the US, who do you think is next? Better think about beefing up your security services, because under those circumsatnces, the US isn;t going to be too ready to leap to your defense when they start to REALLY operate insode your borders.
The US MUST have world approval to use its military to defeat a clear enemy? Crap on that. That's what every nation maintains a military FOR! Wake the fuck up.
Gato, good logistical points there, but I'm pretty sure we can figure a way around those.
Iraq is not a direct enemy? Bullshit. Financially, geographically, and logistically, Hussein's government is unquestionably guilty of supporting terrorism at a state level. Last time I checked, terrorism is what we were fighting against.
Bush just wants to finish Daddy's job? That's pretty weak. I think he's responding to a direct attack on the United States. Certainly someone needs to get their head out of their ass, but I don't believe that problem lies on this side of the Atlantic. Think about this, our dear European "allies", if these idiots succeed in cowing the US, who do you think is next? Better think about beefing up your security services, because under those circumsatnces, the US isn;t going to be too ready to leap to your defense when they start to REALLY operate insode your borders.
The US MUST have world approval to use its military to defeat a clear enemy? Crap on that. That's what every nation maintains a military FOR! Wake the fuck up.
Gato, good logistical points there, but I'm pretty sure we can figure a way around those.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
I hate to be blunt, but since you all have been, I'll say this. The last person I want in my fox-hole is a hero.
Now back to the main thrust...
1. The references to Hitler were stated to try and garner support from the world. As bad as Saddam is, he's no Hitler. As long as we keep repeating that reference, we'll only weaken our case.
2. As much as some of you would like to believe, the US military ain't as big as you think. We're stretched pretty thin as it is with all of the peace-keeping missions we have over in the former Yugoslavia (which our European "allies" haven't considered), Hungary (to support Bosnia), Turkey (no-fly zone), Saudi Arabia (no-fly zone), Korea (war zone), etc. Europe has always been reluctant to act unless the situation was dire, and the European Union is made up of those folks. Russia, FWIW, is the most likely country to get involved in Iraq on our side anyway, considering that they are even closer to the fallout than the rest of Europe. My personal opinion? Let Europe take a few hits before we act alone. We don't have the man-power, the budget (bullets ain't free), or the supply bases to sustain a war. Period.
3. Considering that I am most likely the only military member on this BBS, I feel I have a right to say this. If you are not in the armed forces right now, then you should button your lip. You have no idea of what you're asking, nor will most of you, if you decide to join up, see anything of what you ask. Real war is nothing to ask for unless there is no other choice.
4. You don't drop nukes unless you are willing to have nukes dropped on you. We don't have an ABM system set up, and even if we did, the best we can cover is 30%. Just remember that you can't pick which 70% of the US will get vaporized. Perhaps you've forgotten that the US isn't the only nuclear armed country...
5. Luis...Once we annex Mexico for Pemex, we won't need Iraq...
Now back to the main thrust...
1. The references to Hitler were stated to try and garner support from the world. As bad as Saddam is, he's no Hitler. As long as we keep repeating that reference, we'll only weaken our case.
2. As much as some of you would like to believe, the US military ain't as big as you think. We're stretched pretty thin as it is with all of the peace-keeping missions we have over in the former Yugoslavia (which our European "allies" haven't considered), Hungary (to support Bosnia), Turkey (no-fly zone), Saudi Arabia (no-fly zone), Korea (war zone), etc. Europe has always been reluctant to act unless the situation was dire, and the European Union is made up of those folks. Russia, FWIW, is the most likely country to get involved in Iraq on our side anyway, considering that they are even closer to the fallout than the rest of Europe. My personal opinion? Let Europe take a few hits before we act alone. We don't have the man-power, the budget (bullets ain't free), or the supply bases to sustain a war. Period.
3. Considering that I am most likely the only military member on this BBS, I feel I have a right to say this. If you are not in the armed forces right now, then you should button your lip. You have no idea of what you're asking, nor will most of you, if you decide to join up, see anything of what you ask. Real war is nothing to ask for unless there is no other choice.
4. You don't drop nukes unless you are willing to have nukes dropped on you. We don't have an ABM system set up, and even if we did, the best we can cover is 30%. Just remember that you can't pick which 70% of the US will get vaporized. Perhaps you've forgotten that the US isn't the only nuclear armed country...
5. Luis...Once we annex Mexico for Pemex, we won't need Iraq...
HomeLAN
New Member
Gato, I ain't military, but I did grow up military. I think I have some idea what is being asked, and I have nothing but admiration and respect for the members of the US armed forces.
That being said, don't tell me to button my lip. I don't even say that to those who aren't (yet) involved in this dustup.
That being said, don't tell me to button my lip. I don't even say that to those who aren't (yet) involved in this dustup.
Yep, sorry Gato, you may be military, but we are the citizens, therefore we have the right to discuss this, and there isn't a shitten thing you can do or say to prevent it. I'm not military, but my Father died in that hellhole Vietnam, my two older brothers served in the Navy, on an aircraft carrier, and the Army, 82nd Airborne.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
PuterTutor said:
Re-read that statement, and consider it before you respond again. As usual, the US citizen is asking the US military to go do a job that they only think they know about. Vietnam was a hell-hole, but were you there? We all know the answer to that. The only thing I know is that, when the balloon goes up, and the actual killing begins, most of the folks who called for the war are nowhere near it. You have the right to voice your opinion, true, but the 'button your lip' was not about your opinion. It was about your knowledge of warfare. Until you've seen it, lived it, and survived it, all you'll ever have is a 'Hollywood' impression.
Gato_Solo said:
I've never been in a war, but i actually think the same way you do. Your comments made me remember the Southpark movie, in the scenes where the war started and the "stupid bitch" just said: "ohhh that's not what i wanted, i wanted our children to have freedom" (or something like that). The point in of that scene (as i see it) is that everybody wanted war, but when they see it with their own eyes, and they see how their relatives die, well, they suddenly change their minds.
You signed up for military duty because you wanted to serve your country. You know what, in this country it IS the citizens that tell our country what to do. We may not know the horrors of real warfare, but I can tell you this. We do realize what we are asking of our military when we send them half way around the world to do a job that we can not or will not do ourselves. But I hope to hell the US military isn't filled with people like you who question what they are told at every turn, the military is a very disciplined environment, you do what you are told, whether you feel it is right or not, because your buddy's lives depend on it, and because that is what you agreed to do the day you signed up for military duty.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
PuterTutor said:
I have never questioned an order, but I do call into question YOUR backbone for even suggesting it. I don't see YOU in a uniform. Believe you me, I will go when called, and you can sit on your butt and watch folks like me go into harms way so you can sit back and enjoy your meal.
Only a fool actually wants to go into a combat situation. Think it over.
Sorry, that probably was a little harsh. I didn't mean to and shouldn't question your commitment to the US. I apologize. But, do not tell me to button my lip when it comes to what we should do with this country, just because I'm not wearing a uniform does NOT mean I have less right to an opinion on this matter than you do.