Space shuttle Columbia crashes

[freako104]

it is always a possibility but not every accident involves terrorism. even when i watched the news and it was crashing, it was said to be more of a malfunction not terrorism and then bush goes and says that id never rule it out but as i said not everything involves terrorism

 

[Aunty Em]

I read something today where at takeoff, a piece of insulation from an external fuel tank fell off and hit one of the wings, the astronauts inspected it in space and said it was minor damage. I'm betting it wasn't so minor.

I can't find the story now, but I'm pretty sure it was on Msnbc, a related link about the launch.

From what I read this morning they didn't do a spacewalk to inspect the damage, it was checked using other methods... a big mistake by the look of things...

 

[Justintime]

sad sad, was watching it at a mates when it happened, got that same sick feel i had when the first one blew up

 

[Aunty Em]

I think that what they'll find is that there was more extensive damage caused to the vehicle than was at first thought. Also using a vehicle first put in service in 1981 which should have been retired over a year ago but wasn't because funding was not available to replace it, and cutting $500m from the maintenance budget for last year alone were probably significant factors in the accident. Not that the families will find that much comfort.

This has seriously set back the whole human space program. Personally I'm worried about the three astronauts still up on the ISS(Space Station) as shuttle launches have been suspended indefinately and they relied on the shuttles for supplies... also if they do come down(in the 20 year old soyuz capsule escape pod), there is the very real likehood that the ISS will lose altitude and burn up on re-entry into the atmosphere thus losing the international space community billions of $s and a significant resource for continuing space exploration.

 

[PT]

I think they'll go on. We have put too much into it now to back off.

 

[Mirlyn]

I read something today where at takeoff, a piece of insulation from an external fuel tank fell off and hit one of the wings, the astronauts inspected it in space and said it was minor damage. I'm betting it wasn't so minor.

I can't find the story now, but I'm pretty sure it was on Msnbc, a related link about the launch.

From what I read this morning they didn't do a spacewalk to inspect the damage, it was checked using other methods... a big mistake by the look of things...

I wonder, had they seen what kind of damage there was (if any), if the shuttle would have been repairable. I'm sure it'd have done wonders to the moral of the crew if they "walked" and saw damage unrepairable from space.

 

[Aunty Em]

I wonder, had they seen what kind of damage there was (if any), if the shuttle would have been repairable. I'm sure it'd have done wonders to the moral of the crew if they "walked" and saw damage unrepairable from space.

They could have sent up a rescue mission...

 

[Professur]

Not really. And it's not like there are any spare parts up at the ISS either.

 

[Aunty Em]

Well personally if I was gonna get fried and there was no way out of it I'd want to know, then at least I could say goodbye to my loved ones...

 

[Mirlyn]

They could have sent up a rescue mission...

The paper today said Atlantis was scheduled to launch March 1st, and highly doubtful it could be rushed onto the pad in time to rescue the crew. Shuttles carry no extra tiles, nor any of the required eqipment to repair the outside of the spacecraft. To make matters worse, Columbia had only a few day's worth of oxygen remaining before it made its final descent.

 

[sbcanada]

They knew there was damage to the shuttle after it had taken off. Why the hell didn't they take an extra day or two to go out on a spacewalk and inspect the damage? They could have gotten back to earth without the shuttle; there is the Russian rocket docked there or another shuttle could have come and get them eventually.

I mean, they knew there was probably damage. It really questions NASA's intelligence when they don't even take a look at it. "Our shuttle was probably damaged on takeoff. Oh well, lets do our experiements and hop in the shuttle and attempt to land."

If that loose insulation was the cause of this, and they did not really go and check for damage... This would be another prime example of American stupidity.

 

[Squiggy]

Sadly true....

 

[Mirlyn]

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/special_packages/shuttle/5091122.htm

Some questions/possible answers pertaining to rescue/repair mission(s) to Columbia.

 

[Squiggy]

Interesting read, Mirlyn. Thanks...

 

[outside looking in]

They knew there was damage to the shuttle after it had taken off.

They didn't know there was damage. Examination of the film only revealed that something (insulation most likely) had struck the port wing, but did not indicate whether or not there was any damage. Insulation breaking off and striking things has happened numerous times in the past without causing damage.

Why the hell didn't they take an extra day or two to go out on a spacewalk and inspect the damage?

Colombia was not equipped with the Canadian designed arm, and they had no jetpacks for their suits. They simply couldn't get to the bottom of the shuttle without having one crew member volunteer to sacrifice themselves to float away from the shuttle and radio back any useful information. Yeah... genious idea there.

They could have gotten back to earth without the shuttle; there is the Russian rocket docked there or another shuttle could have come and get them eventually.

The shuttle could not make it to the higher orbit of the ISS, and even if it could it would not have been able to dock. Had the Soyuz capsule tried to rendevous with the shuttle in the lower orbit, it still could not dock (meaning crew would have to "float" from one to the other, if it is even possible to gain entry to the Soyuz capsule without establishing an airlock with another vehicle first). And, even if they could somehow get inside the Soyuz capsule, it would have left five crew still stranded on the shuttle, and another two stranded on the ISS. Another brilliant idea.

And yes, I suppose another shuttle could have eventually been sent up to retrieve their bodies, since they would have long since have been dead from asphixiation.

It really questions NASA's intelligence when they don't even take a look at it. "Our shuttle was probably damaged on takeoff. Oh well, lets do our experiements and hop in the shuttle and attempt to land."

NASA spent days carefully examining the footage taken during takeoff, and the brightest minds there concluded that (1) the likelihood of damage based on previous similar cases was low, and (2) more importantly, there wasn't a damned thing they could have done about it. The shuttle was going to have to come down, one way or another, within just a few days based on the limited resources on board. The original mission schedule was the safest possible way to attempt a return. In such cases, fewer unexpected changes of plans are generally better.

If that loose insulation was the cause of this, and they did not really go and check for damage... This would be another prime example of American stupidity.

Your armchair analysis is just a prime example of your own stupidity. And frankly, your tendancy to jump on the "stupid Americans" bandwagon in these types of events (unfortunate killing of Canadian soldiers) is not only irritating, but revealing.

 

[PT]

 

[catocom]

here here.

I think NASA has done a damn good job, with the budget
they've had to work with the past several years.

Most people have come to think of the shuttle as being like
a big airplane or something.
Shit this is Space, and it's still just as dangerous in most
aspects as it was the day the first man went into space.

Every person that goes into space is a hero.
They put thier life on the line everytime.

I do agree with what one ex-astornuat said about the shuttle
though...
The shuttle has it's place, but the main thing is to get back to
exploration. Maybe back to the moon, then mars....

 

[Aunty Em]

So they made a mistake, now they'll have to live with it. The best thing you can say about it probably was that the end was quick and hopefully NASA will learn from it and maybe look at contingency plans in case this or something similar happens again.

Space is an uncompromising environment and considering how dangerous it is up there and getting up there, it's really surprising that there haven't been more disasters than there have. That must say something for their safety consciousness. Sadly, you can't foresee everything.

Given the choice with no alternative which would you prefer, a slow death from asphixiation or a quick one. I know which one I would choose... I'd hold out until the last moment and then just aim it...

 

[sbcanada]

That's pretty crappy if they have no way of remotely viewing parts of the shuttle once it is docked. Should they have remote cameras? What about the Canadarm 2? That was at the space station. Could that have been used to aid the astronaughts in a spacewalk around the shuttle? If not, there's always rope and suction cup things. No need to float away.

And since you mentioned the American bombing of Canadian soldiers, and yes I did use that as an example of American stupidity. And it turns out, it was the American pilots fault. He was under orders to hold fire, he should have fled the scene. He dropped the bomb and should not have and that makes him a genuine idiot.

 

[sbcanada]

They also said that that insulation was travelling near the speed of sound in relation to the shuttle when it hit near the wheel-well. How could it not cause damage? In any case, had they decided not to attempt to land the shuttle, there are many other potential ways to get them home safely. They can ship more supplies up to the ISS so they could have waited there for a long time if need be.

But hours after the disaster, shuttle program manager Ron Dittemore acknowledged that NASA might have been wrong and that wing damage on launch day might have contributed to or even caused Columbia to disintegrate on re-entry.

There you have it. They knew the shuttle was damaged. Failed to check it out properly, and the crew is dead, and they say "oops, this has happened before and it never caused any real damage. Oh well. Let's just say there was nothing that could be done and call them all heroes and mourn they tragic loss."

If that crap has come off before and hit the shuttle....... why wasn't something done to prevent more from coming off and hitting the shuttle long before this happened?