Stroker Chevez still at it

spike said:
Nope. I think you're refusing to see the damage being done by your own party furthering their agenda with their dirty tactics. These scandals are in the news if you want to read about them.
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He is talking about his own party.

What damage? What agenda? What dirty tricks? Whta scandal(s)?
 
spike said:
You say no signs of fraud but it looks like there are at the least some signs of fraud.
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He hasn't presented any proof of such signs. And you won't find anything about such evidence on mayor news sources since there aren't any signs of fraud because there was no fraud.

But I must admit that I'm rather surprised by your support of the fraud theory. Why do you believe or want to believe it, is still beyond me.
 
so far it is all ALLIGATIONS of fraud, not proof, and there is always alligations in a close election, as well as there is always a small amount of fraud in any election, people who jsut think they are doing the right thing by destroying a few ballots.

when it becomes real organized fraud if for the courts to decide.

and if you want a REAL scandal look up project ajax, the british and US sponsored cout d'etat against a democraticaly elected leader in iran.

It was this incident that lead to anti-american feeling is the area and helped spark the iran hostage crisis.

President in power at the time was a democrat.
 
How did Jiminy Carter integrate the military?

NM-we're heading down two different paths. OPERATION AJAX is what you're talking about.
 
Gonz said:
How did Jiminy Carter integrate the military?

NM-we're heading down two different paths. OPERATION AJAX is what you're talking about.
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operation ajax was on of the catalysts that lead to the anti-american feelings in iran, which prompted the Iran hostage crisis.

but it happend when TRUMAN was prez.

they removed the ELECTED leader and replaced him with the shah.
 
Gonz said:
30 some odd years later. Nah. Ironically, they now are thinking to themselves; Boy, did we pick the wrong side.
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Yep, there is a direct corrilation, the short version

leader replaced by pro-US shah

shah replaced by ayatollah

shah in exile

shah goes to US for medical treatment

Iranian who support Ayatollah and are anti-shah say CRAP here we go again, they are putting him back in power, lets take over the embassey.

Anyway the scandal in question was the removal of a elected leader by a foreign power, who happened to be the US.
 
Luis G said:
And you won't find anything about such evidence on mayor news sources since there aren't any signs of fraud because there was no fraud..
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The problem is the major news source stories are very vague. They don't go into numbers (even the ones you posted about votes gained). It's like they're just not publishing a lot of numbers.

Instead of reading numbers like "The PRD reported that the 60% of the sealed ballot packets that are being recounted, more than 40,000 votes had surfaced, 60,000 ballots have mysteriously disappeared, and another 100,000 have been "significantly altered."

I should see numbers like 0 votes have surfaced, 0 votes have have mysteriously disappeared, and 0 votes have been "significantly altered".

Here's something from a more mainstream source. There does appear to be at least some evidence of fraud.

In some precincts, ballot boxes that were to remain sealed and locked up were found opened. In other precincts, the numbers of votes exceeded the numbers of ballots handed out. Errors of math, counting or procedure have turned up at thousands of precincts.

Most of these errors are minor, the PAN points out. They cut both ways. And taken in total, Calderon's aides say, they do not change the outcome.

But some irregularities seem to go beyond "human error."

In Durango, for example, officials opened one box only to find empty envelopes where the ballots should be, according to the Mexico City daily El Universal.

"If this thing is that sloppy, they should annul it," said Mark Weisbrot of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington. "If they were taking a random sample, there is a high probability that based on a recount you could say what happened.

"But since this is not a random sample, no matter what result comes out, there is no way you will really know," said Weisbrot, whose left-leaning think tank did a critical study of how electoral authorities counted the ballots in the days right after the vote. "There are a lot of big questions."
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http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/15255553.htm
 
spike said:
The problem is the major news source stories are very vague. They don't go into numbers (even the ones you posted about votes gained). It's like they're just not publishing a lot of numbers.

Instead of reading numbers like "The PRD reported that the 60% of the sealed ballot packets that are being recounted, more than 40,000 votes had surfaced, 60,000 ballots have mysteriously disappeared, and another 100,000 have been "significantly altered."

I should see numbers like 0 votes have surfaced, 0 votes have have mysteriously disappeared, and 0 votes have been "significantly altered".

Here's something from a more mainstream source. There does appear to be at least some evidence of fraud.


http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/15255553.htm
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I've noticed that international press is not going into details, if you could read spanish you would have your numbers. So far, what's the problem with the numbers I posted? they all became void/null votes because of some irregularities (wether intentional or not). If you re-read the numbers I posted all candidates LOST votes, not gained.

And I already explained why some ballots disappeared and some boxes had more ballots than it should.

But hey, if you want to believe there's "some" evidence of fraud, be my guest. Ignorance is not a crime.
 
spike said:
Believing there is no fraud in ANY election would be the ignorant point of view.
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There certainly was no state fraud nor mass fraud, just isolated anomalies. But then again, there is some people that would call any anomalie a fraud :rolleyes:
 
Luis G said:
There certainly was no state fraud nor mass fraud, just isolated anomalies. But then again, there is some people that would call any anomalie a fraud :rolleyes:
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From what I've been reading it's not certain at all and you haven't posted anything that makes it look certain either.
 
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