Barack Obama, advocate for killing babies throughout the known world

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Everyone tired of chasing that red herring yet?

The gag rule was overturned - it's not promoting abortion, it's promoting family planning and AIDS hospices, and teen-pregnancy centers, and hospitals, and clinics etc etc... but before, if you wanted financial assistance for your center, you couldn't even MENTION abortion (even if it wasn't a service offered in that clinic).

Hopefully, next he'll overturn the removal of the "C" in the ABC's of stopping AIDS/HIV in Africa etc.

Dubya refused to fund or support any anti-AIDS/HIV/HEP service that mentioned the use of Condoms as part of their plan.

Abstinence, Be faithful, use Condoms
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
I see little point in supplying rubbers to countries where a 7 year old girl making it home without being gangraped on the way is cause for celebration.
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
I see little point in supplying rubbers to countries where a 7 year old girl making it home without being gangraped on the way is cause for celebration.
Said 7 year old is being raped because someone's of the opinion that if you have sex with a virgin that you'll get rid of AIDS. (and they're running out of virgins)

It's idiotic...and a direct result of bad education.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
I used to believe that keeping their legs shut was the best way for a girl to avoid becoming a mother. But then I realized how stupid I was being ... expecting self control from a population of sheep.

I used to think there was such a thing as common sense, before hangin' here for a while too.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
Said 7 year old is being raped because someone's of the opinion that if you have sex with a virgin that you'll get rid of AIDS. (and they're running out of virgins)

It's idiotic...and a direct result of bad education.


The same agencies in the same countries tried giving out birth control pills to the wimmens. You might remember in high school photos of the wimmen wearing the pill cases on thongs around their neck like talismans. Education is pointless when people don't believe the teacher. Let's face it ... it was no great challenge to realize that the earth is round. Every sailor for thousands of years saw mountains sink below the horizon, and then rise back up again. Why didn't they accept the world being round? .... because they didn't want to. It didn't fit with their idea of the world ... and neither does condoms.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
Everyone tired of chasing that red herring yet?

The gag rule was overturned - it's not promoting abortion, it's promoting family planning and AIDS hospices, and teen-pregnancy centers, and hospitals, and clinics etc etc... but before, if you wanted financial assistance for your center, you couldn't even MENTION abortion (even if it wasn't a service offered in that clinic).

You failed to recognize your own red herring.

All of the things you cite were available with the exception of abortion services under the old order. Why is enabling the killing of babies such an important caveat that a major political party has it as a major plank in their party platform? Hell, it's not just a plank, it's the keystone.
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
The red herring was that it was made to seem as if it was pushing for money for abortion clinics.

Any clinic or center that so much as mentioned abortion as an option (legal) was unable to receive much needed funding.

Which is specifically why I brought up the ABC of HIV/AIDS. The "C" part of it was the clincher.

So...you can help save people, so long as you don't mention, give away, or in any way promote condoms.

You can help save people, so long as you don't mention, offer or in any way promote abortion.
 

spike

New Member
The same agencies in the same countries tried giving out birth control pills to the wimmens. You might remember in high school photos of the wimmen wearing the pill cases on thongs around their neck like talismans. Education is pointless when people don't believe the teacher.

I wonder if you have some actual information on the effectiveness of this education and birth control or if you just a got picture of a woman in thong stuck in your head and made some unwarranted generalizations from there.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
Well, I can't say that I've actually given enough of a damn about the self inflicted plight of people in Africa to have done any research into the subject, but I do recall the class vividly as the teacher was easily my favorite. Bish, do you remember what Dr.Baker held his doctorate in? I think it was anthropology but I'd hate to make a liar of myself over it and it's not like I can ask him anymore.

Regardless of that, the rest of my post (which you didn't quote) proves the basis of the former. The Shopping Network serves as sufficient proof that the phenomena continues into the present day.
 

spike

New Member
Ah yes, the self inflicted plight. :rolleyes:

So I asked if you had any information on the actual effectiveness of the education and you responed by asking Bish if he knew what a professors guys doctorate was in? How would that be relevant?

Regardless of that, the rest of my post (which you didn't quote) proves the basis of the former. The Shopping Network serves as sufficient proof that the phenomena continues into the present day.

The rest of your post didn't prove squat, which is why I didn't quote it. People continued to believe in a flat earth in large part because of religion once again holding back society. However people now do believe the earth is round and have for quite some time. The education worked.

Not that this has any logical connection to birth control. And the shopping network is just a strange stretch so I don't even know where you're going with that one.

I suppose by your logic all I would have to do is find a couple historical examples where education did actually educate people in a reasonable time period and your whole argument would be gone.
 

BlurOfSerenity

New Member
Wouldn't the best way to say it be "self-restraint" or lacking that ability then "birth control?"

i'm sorry, your post doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

i have time-and-time-again said that "should have..." doesn't do a lot of good after the fact.

pregnant woman: i'm pregnant.
person who is apparently an expert in time travel: well, shoulda kept your legs shut!
pregnant woman: oh thank you! i am suddenly no longer pregnant, as you have pointed out mistakes i have made in my past, thereby changing it!!
 

valkyrie

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm... reading through the responses I think I need to step in and say something. There is a general opinion in this thread that women have abortions because they are not responsible enough to get on birth control.

I had an abortion at 18. I was on birth control and monogamous. I was prescribed antibiotics and wasn't told by either the doctor (who knew I was on birth control pills) nor the pharmacist (who I obtained the birth control pills from) that antibiotics would render the birth control pills useless. Long story short... got pregnant... learned that the antibiotic I was taking would severely damage the fetus... was in college and wasn't financially nor emotionally ready for a family... had an abortion.

I am grateful that I live in a country that allows me to obtain a legal, safe abortion. And I have no regrets that I had an abortion.
/me waves American flag
Proud to be an American! Where I'm free!

And for anyone who wants to criticize me for my decision...
:stfu:
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm... reading through the responses I think I need to step in and say something. There is a general opinion in this thread that women have abortions because they are not responsible enough to get on birth control.

I had an abortion at 18. I was on birth control and monogamous. I was prescribed antibiotics and wasn't told by either the doctor (who knew I was on birth control pills) nor the pharmacist (who I obtained the birth control pills from) that antibiotics would render the birth control pills useless. Long story short... got pregnant... learned that the antibiotic I was taking would severely damage the fetus... was in college and wasn't financially nor emotionally ready for a family... had an abortion.

Hey, it was better to kill it than give it to some family who really wanted it. Good decision on your part if you ask me. They probably would have just abused it by spanking it with a coat hanger anyway.

nocoathangerskeepabortill1.jpg
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
The US is highest on that list. OK. I bet we talk about it & talk about it & talk about it & talk about it & talk about it...yet teens still get pregnant, people still get HIV & other assorted STDs.

Talk doesn't work. Abstinence does, every time it's tried.
 

valkyrie

Well-Known Member
Hey, it was better to kill it than give it to some family who really wanted it. Good decision on your part if you ask me. They probably would have just abused it by spanking it with a coat hanger anyway.

nocoathangerskeepabortill1.jpg
Not a big adoption market out there for severely handicapped babies, other than those looking for an SSI check. (How many have you personally adopted?) It was my body, my decision. So go cry on someone else's shoulders for the lost (physically and mentally handicapped) baby you didn't get to adopt. :rolleyes:
The only reason I put that out there is to enlighten those who don't realize there are other situations than what's been posted here. Enlightenment for those that can be enlightened. That would rule you out.

Like I said... proud to be an American. Where I am free.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
Not a big adoption market out there for severely handicapped babies, other than those looking for an SSI check.

It is fairly obvious that you would be very surprised on the number of people who are willing to give of themselves by taking in handicapped children. Sad, that.

(How many have you personally adopted?)

I am a licensed foster care parent. I haven't had any kids for several years, though.

It was my body, my decision. So go cry on someone else's shoulders for the lost (physically and mentally handicapped) baby you didn't get to adopt.

I wasn't talking about me.

The only reason I put that out there is to enlighten those who don't realize there are other situations than what's been posted here. Enlightenment for those that can be enlightened. That would rule you out.

You wrote:

... learned that the antibiotic I was taking would severely damage the fetus...

But then threw in this:

was in college and wasn't financially nor emotionally ready for a family

So which was it -- the fact that it would inconvenience you to stop taking the drug to preserve the health of the baby; or the fact that it would inconvenience you to have it? Sounds to me like you simply didn't want to be inconvenienced one way or the other.

Like I said... proud to be an American. Where I am free.

Yes. Free of inconvenience.
 
The US is highest on that list. OK. I bet we talk about it & talk about it & talk about it & talk about it & talk about it...yet teens still get pregnant, people still get HIV & other assorted STDs.

Talk doesn't work. Abstinence does, every time it's tried.


Yeah that might work IF you could throw free will out of the equation, but last I checked nobody had yet elected you god. So what is it then tell the kids to be abstinent but if they are not disown them and send them out to seek welfare? If the kid will not be abstinent they should be provided with every bit of precaution to prevent pregnancy. Then there would be no need to abort except in rare cases, but no, by all means kids should just be abstinent and if we yell hard enough and beat them when they go astray of course they will! It has worked so well so far hasn't it?

This is one of those issues most people in this country stop thinking and start reacting about. Everyone seems to think they or their kids are different. Well I have news for you, if your kids are over 15, the chances are they are sexually active, despite you living in dreamland! So the only question is, should they be kept in ignorance and shamed for seeking birth control and we just trust to luck and the hand of fate? Or maybe we give them all the facts so that at least if they make choices we disagree with they may still be more adult about it.

Never mind, don't answer, because this is in part, my field, and I know parents like you, your kids and you are different and professionals in the field are encouraging teen sex. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!

Congratulations on those early grandkids in advance!
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
But wait! To make this issue even more interesting ...

Maybe if our poor could qualify as foreigners they might get coverage.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090127/D95V83N81.html

Officials: Family planning money may be dropped

Jan 26, 10:34 PM (ET)

By DAVID ESPO and ANDREW TAYLOR

WASHINGTON (AP) - House Democrats are likely to jettison family planning funds for the low-income from an $825 billion economic stimulus bill, officials said late Monday, following a personal appeal from President Barack Obama at a time the administration is courting Republican critics of the legislation.

Several officials said a final decision was expected on Tuesday, coinciding with Obama's scheduled visit to the Capitol for separate meetings with House and Senate Republicans.

The provision has emerged as a point of contention among Republicans, who criticize it as an example of wasteful spending that would neither create jobs nor otherwise improve the economy.

Under the provision, states no longer would be required to obtain federal permission to offer family planning services - including contraceptives - under Medicaid, the health program for the low-income.

Democrats considered the politically-potent change as congressional budget experts estimated it would take slightly longer for the overall legislation to achieve an impact on the economy than the administration projects.

The Congressional Budget Office said the economy would feel the effects of almost two-thirds of the money over the next year and a half. The administration claims 75 percent of the funding would be absorbed in that period of time, and Obama has pledged that the bill he signs will meet that target and either save or create up to 4 million jobs.

While the debate surrounding the overall impact of the measure pits economists and their statistics against one another, Republicans quickly seized on the family planning money as evidence that the Democrats were advancing an agenda that went beyond the economy.

"How you can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on contraceptives how does that stimulate the economy?" House Republican Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio said on Friday after congressional leaders met with Obama at the White House. "You can go through a whole host of issues that have nothing to do with growing jobs in America and helping people keep their jobs."

Several Democrats said Monday night that Obama had spoken personally with Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., about removing the provision. Waxman is chairman of the committee with jurisdiction over Medicaid and a close ally of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

The Democrats who described the likely reversal did so on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to disclose developments not yet made public.

Obama's request to House Democrats underscores the administration's desire to signal a spirit of bipartisanship, a recurring theme for the president in his first week in office.

[more]
 

spike

New Member
Hey, it was better to kill it than give it to some family who really wanted it. Good decision on your part if you ask me. They probably would have just abused it by spanking it with a coat hanger anyway.

How about you just make decisions within your own family?

So which was it -- the fact that it would inconvenience you to stop taking the drug

Ever consider her health depended on taking the drug?

Yes. Free of inconvenience.

Yes, we all know how much you value that. You even bitch and whine when you have bag groceries with bags that people brought in.

You've also stated recently that you'd rather just let people die if it costs to much to not kill them.

You got no room on this one to be talking Jim.
 
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