In a perfect world

[Thulsa Doom]

Tim McVeigh not a stereotype? I dont know. Whenever i see a white guy with a crew cut in the grocery store now I start screaming TERRORIST!! TERRORIST!! TACKLE HIM!! GO BACK TO YOUR SUBURBS AND YOUR STRIP MALLS AND LEAVE US CIVILIZED PEOPLE ALONE!!

 

[freako104]

what happens does anyone believe you or just th funny looks?

 

[Thulsa Doom]

well the white people start looking aroud for a guy with a towel on his head and when they dont see anyone they get confused and then they act like they dont see the weird guy yelling.

 

[freako104]

i guess they forgot or he doesnt fit the stereotype. so far your the only one who bought the stereotype. going to return it?

 

[A.B.Normal]

Oklahoma City?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I guess that wasn't terrorism but patriotism?

Also the Anthrax scare , and then this potential terrorist threat was avoided http://csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p02s01-usju.html ,but how many more home grown are out there?Remember Mcvie and partner(s) were rebelling against "Government " and there is a hell of alot more "Government" now ,chances are its only a matter of time before they show themselves again.

 

[Gonz]

Tim McVeigh not a stereotype? I dont know. Whenever i see a white guy with a crew cut in the grocery store now I start screaming TERRORIST!! TERRORIST!! TACKLE HIM!! GO BACK TO YOUR SUBURBS AND YOUR STRIP MALLS AND LEAVE US CIVILIZED PEOPLE ALONE!!

Now that you mention it, so do I

 

[Gonz]

potential terrorist threat was avoided

That's good AB. An avoided potential.

The anthrax may be (d...nobody knows yet

 

[chcr]

Also the Anthrax scare , and then this potential terrorist threat was avoided http://csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p02s01-usju.html ,but how many more home grown are out there?Remember Mcvie and partner(s) were rebelling against "Government " and there is a hell of alot more "Government" now ,chances are its only a matter of time before they show themselves again.

Well, we are teaching them that the way to get your grievances aired is to horrify as many people as possible. The ones you bring up are not as organized as the OK City bombing though. That was carried out with precision and the direct intent to terrify government employees. The others are aimed at government employees, but they haven't been as well planned (and we are more alert).

 

[The Other One]

So I take it you honestly believe that Gonz's original post was an accurate description of a muslim male between the ages of 17 and 40?

Get real

Perhaps this statement from bin Laden's Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders (World Islamic Front Statement) is a more accurate description: "....All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."
On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."
We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson."
http://www.atour.com/news/international/20010928b.html

Do I need to define 'jihad' for you: "Jihad is "holy war." Or, more precisely: It means the legal, compulsory, communal effort to expand the territories ruled by Muslims at the expense of territories ruled by non-Muslims. The purpose of jihad, in other words, is not directly to spread the Islamic faith but to extend sovereign Muslim power (faith, of course, often follows the flag). Jihad is thus unabashedly offensive in nature, with the eventual goal of achieving Muslim dominion over the entire globe."


The reality is that if political correctness, affirmative action, diversity, perversity, tolerance, and multiculturalism are allowed to continue it will be the end of this nation.

Middle Eastern men of Arab descent. Hmm. How about the reality that 19 out of 19 of those who flew planes into buildings killing thousands of Americans were Muslims? But wait. Hold on just one damn minute. Think about GITMO. Shouldn't preserving the self-worth of a terrorist be more important than national security? Christ--what was I thinking? It doesn't matter if you lose your life as long as you don't lose your sensivity or political correctness. It's important to maintain your integrity as a diversity-loving freak.

"Islam is a religion of peace, and terrorism is a perversion of Islam." That the U.S. is a success as a civilization makes Muslims look like primitive and fanatical failures. How could we be a success without considering their feelings? America has produced countless advances in technology, science, and medicine. The Third World is a world of disease, poverty, ignorance, and oppression. They are hateful, jealous, and destructive. Their only contribution to world history has been death, oppression, fear, and terror. They have no capacity to create. 'Made in the Middle East'? Yeah, right. Smashing a plane into a building they could never hope to build is their 'creation'. Remember the tape of bin Laden getting the news the Towers fell?

The reality is there is only one nation on this planet that attracts people from virtually every other country. Get it? Many want what this country offers. Others simply want to destroy it. And some living here would hold open the door to the destruction.

As Thomas Paine wrote back in 1776: "What we obtain too cheap we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value."

 

[GOD ALMIGHTY]

This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God

Have ye all knowest now that such a thing has never parted from mine own lips. Thee speak as Ba'al zebhubh Islamic traitor. Be gone.

 

[The Other One]

Have ye all knowest now that such a thing has never parted from mine own lips. Thee speak as Ba'al zebhubh Islamic traitor. Be gone.

I only quotethed...

 

[Thulsa Doom]

The reality is that if political correctness, affirmative action, diversity, perversity, tolerance, and multiculturalism are allowed to continue it will be the end of this nation.

Hitler couldn’t have said it better himself. Quick lets round em up and stick em in cages. Down with tolerance! Down with anyone elses culture!

They are hateful, jealous, and destructive. Their only contribution to world history has been death, oppression, fear, and terror. They have no capacity to create.

And here is where we use blatant and overt racism to say something ridiculous about millions of other humans so we can justify treating them like subhumans and hopefully wipe them off the earth. Again you follow the Hitler model very well. Tell lies that divide people and reinforce stereotypes. Do you make little pamphlets with this kind of pathetic diatribe in it and stick em on car windshields or do you just sit and stew and say it to yourself so youll believe it more and more?

Of course the irony is that you’ve lowered yourself to the same level as the fanatic terrorist who attacks us by saying EVERY muslim is a fanatic terrorist. They too believe that EVERY American (every westerner in fact) is a fanatic zealot out to destroy islamic culture. How does it feel to know that in your sick and twisted and wholly inaccurate point of view, you are the equivalent of the very people you rail against? Nice company eh?

 

[The Other One]

.... in your sick and twisted and wholly inaccurate point of view...

I've been waiting for 'sick and twisted'....

Interesting that while claiming to be from D.C., where the Pentagon was rammed by a Muslim at the controls of a jetliner (did you see the slo-mo of the jet disintegrating into the wall----pretty far fucking out, dude---wasn't it cool, eh? You've probably got the still shot of it framed--am I right?) your sympathies lie with bin Laden and crew. Please prove me wrong: was it the "They are hateful, jealous, and destructive. Their only contribution to world history has been death, oppression, fear, and terror. They have no capacity to create." part, or the "That the U.S. is a success as a civilization makes Muslims look like primitive and fanatical failures."---that is inaccurate?---and back it up if you can.

 

[Gotnolegs]

Perhaps this statement from bin Laden's Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders (World Islamic Front Statement) is a more accurate description: "....All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."
On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."
We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson."
http://www.atour.com/news/international/20010928b.html

So how does that in any way answer my point? That simply says that some Muslims hate the US. How does that make them the animals Gonz described? It doesn't.

Do I need to define 'jihad' for you: "Jihad is "holy war." Or, more precisely: It means the legal, compulsory, communal effort to expand the territories ruled by Muslims at the expense of territories ruled by non-Muslims. The purpose of jihad, in other words, is not directly to spread the Islamic faith but to extend sovereign Muslim power (faith, of course, often follows the flag). Jihad is thus unabashedly offensive in nature, with the eventual goal of achieving Muslim dominion over the entire globe."

Does taking part in a jihad give you lice? Does it mean you abandon the way of life you have adopted in the country you live in and start wiping your arse with your hand? Does it mean you do away with all your clothes and start wearing rags? I think not.

The reality is that if political correctness, affirmative action, diversity, perversity, tolerance, and multiculturalism are allowed to continue it will be the end of this nation.

And you dislike me calling you a racist? Now I'm really confused.

Middle Eastern men of Arab descent. Hmm. How about the reality that 19 out of 19 of those who flew planes into buildings killing thousands of Americans were Muslims? But wait. Hold on just one damn minute. Think about GITMO. Shouldn't preserving the self-worth of a terrorist be more important than national security? Christ--what was I thinking? It doesn't matter if you lose your life as long as you don't lose your sensivity or political correctness. It's important to maintain your integrity as a diversity-loving freak.

Are you saying that the prisoners in Camp Delta were involved in the 9/11 attacks? Are you saying the people there are terrorists? Do you believe all the bullshit your government shovels? If they are criminals then give them a fucking trial!

"Islam is a religion of peace, and terrorism is a perversion of Islam." That the U.S. is a success as a civilization makes Muslims look like primitive and fanatical failures. How could we be a success without considering their feelings? America has produced countless advances in technology, science, and medicine. The Third World is a world of disease, poverty, ignorance, and oppression. They are hateful, jealous, and destructive. Their only contribution to world history has been death, oppression, fear, and terror. They have no capacity to create. 'Made in the Middle East'? Yeah, right. Smashing a plane into a building they could never hope to build is their 'creation'. Remember the tape of bin Laden getting the news the Towers fell?

I'm sure the many Muslims that died in the WTC would love to hear that. I'm sure the thousands of Muslims living in the UK would be surprised to hear it. I was under the impression that Islam was a religion, apparently not.

The reality is there is only one nation on this planet that attracts people from virtually every other country. Get it? Many want what this country offers. Others simply want to destroy it. And some living here would hold open the door to the destruction.

As Thomas Paine wrote back in 1776: "What we obtain too cheap we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value."

Ignorance is simply being unaware of the facts. Stupidity is wallowing in it.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Okay people...let's get things in perspective here.

1. What Gonz posted was a joke. It wasn't meant to be anything else. It was offensive, to be sure, but it was a joke none-the-less.

2. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Duh. Like most people don't know that. If you're going to argue about that, then you're not looking beyond your own stereotypes. Unlike most here, I've been to the Middle East. Most of the M.E. is like Europe. The only 'backward' thinking country in the M.E. is probably Saudi Arabia (go ahead...I'm waiting for the diatribe).

3. Security should rely on stereotypes if, and only if any act happens at least 3 times. How many times must US lives be ended, or at stake before people realize that those that follow the hatred and bile spewed forth like that of Bin Laden and company is taken seriously.

4. Although not every 'prisoner' at Gitmo has been linked to Al-Queada, almost all have been captured fighting against US soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. Cry all you like about the prisoners country of origin, but if he came from your country, then you have a problem with your citizens, and you've let that problem fester for too long.

5. There are people in the world who do not like you. You can do whatever you like for them, and they will still not like you, and there is nothing you can do to change them. Political correctness is a failed attempt to get people who dislike you to like you. It won't work, it hasn't worked, and, as long as people are individuals, it never will work. Get over it.

6. Terrorism has existed for centuries, and every group in the world has used it since time began. Fanatical Muslims are just the latest breed. The only difference between then and now is the choice of weaponry and the damage caused. The world is not a safe place because people make it that way. Call me paranoid if you think it will help you classify this post, but just remember...even paranoids have real enemies.

 

[Gonz]

Down with tolerance! Down with anyone elses culture!

That is what is killing us. If you wish to partake in the continuance of (fill in respective country) culture, then don't move here.

America has its own culture. Move here & adapt because trying to force us to adapt to yours is getting out of hand. We'll give you a weekend in the summer to do those special things. We're not asking you to throw away your (fill in special item here).

By the way, if your culture & homeland was so special WHY DID YOU LEAVE IT?

 

[Gonz]

Okay people...let's get things in perspective here.

1. What Gonz posted was a joke. It wasn't meant to be anything else. It was offensive, to be sure, but it was a joke none-the-less.

3. Security should rely on stereotypes if, and only if any act happens at least 3 times. How many times must US lives be ended, or at stake before people realize that those that follow the hatred and bile spewed forth like that of Bin Laden and company is taken seriously.

1) HEY!

3)Is this enough for a stereotypical security warning?

-- Nov. 8, 2003: A homicide car bomb kills at least 17 people and wounds 122 at an upscale compound for foreign workers in western Riyadh (search). Usama bin Laden (search)'s Al Qaeda terror network is blamed.



-- Aug. 5, 2003: A homicide bombers kills 12 people and injures 150 at the J.W. Marriott in Jakarta, Indonesia. Authorities blame Jemaah Islamiyah (search), a Southeast Asian group linked to Al Qaeda.

-- May 16, 2003: Bomb attacks in Morocco kill at least 28 people and injure more than 100. The government blames "international terrorism," and local militant groups linked to Al Qaeda.

-- May 12, 2003: Four explosions rock Riyadh, the Saudi capital, in an attack on compounds housing Americans, other Westerners and Saudis. Eight Americans are among those killed. In all, the attack kills 35 people, including nine attackers.

-- May 11, 2003: A bomb explodes at a crowded market in a southern Philippine city, killing at least nine people and wounding 41. The military blames the Muslim separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front.

-- Dec. 30, 2002: A gunman kills three American missionaries at a Southern Baptist hospital in Yemen. Yemeni officials say the gunman, sentenced to death in May, belonged to an Al Qaeda cell.

-- Nov. 28, 2002: Homicide bombers kill 12 people at an Israeli-owned beach hotel in Kenya and two missiles narrowly miss an airliner carrying Israelis.

-- Oct. 12, 2002: Nearly 200 people, including seven Americans, are killed in bombings in a nightclub district of the Indonesian island of Bali. Authorities blame Jemaah Islamiyah.

-- Oct. 6, 2002: A small boat crashes into a French oil tanker off the coast of Yemen and explodes, killing one crewman.

-- Oct. 2, 2002: Suspected Abu Sayyaf guerrillas detonate a nail-laden bomb in a market in Zamboanga, Philippines, killing four people, including an American Green Beret. Four more bomb attacks in October blamed on Abu Sayyaf, a group linked to Al Qaeda, kill 16 people.

-- June 14, 2002: A homicide bomber blows up a truck at the U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 14 Pakistanis. Authorities say it is the work of Harkat-ul-Mujahedeen, linked to Al Qaeda.

-- April 11, 2002: A homicide bombing with a gas truck at a historic Tunisian synagogue on the resort island of Djerba kills 21 people, mostly German tourists.

-- Sept. 11, 2001: Hijackers slam jetliners into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and a fourth hijacked jet crashes in a Pennsylvania field, killing nearly 3,000 people.

-- Dec. 30, 2000: Explosions in Manila strike a train, a bus, the airport, a park near the U.S. Embassy and a gas station, killing 22 people. Philippine and U.S. investigators link the attack to Jemaah Islamiyah.

-- Oct. 12, 2000: Homicide attackers on an explosives-laden boat ram the destroyer USS Cole off Yemen, killing 17 American sailors.

-- Aug. 7, 1998: Nearly simultaneous car bombings hit the U.S. embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya, killing 231 people, including 12 Americans.

 

[Gotnolegs]

4. Although not every 'prisoner' at Gitmo has been linked to Al-Queada, almost all have been captured fighting against US soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. Cry all you like about the prisoners country of origin, but if he came from your country, then you have a problem with your citizens, and you've let that problem fester for too long.

Now I was under the impression that the details regarding why and when these prisoners were captured had not been released.

Also let's assume that the UK does indeed have a problem with our citizens and we have "let that problem fester for too long". Does that give the US the right to ignore international law and hold our citizens without trial for as long as they see fit? No it doesn't.

I was under the impression that the UK was classed as an ally, that your leaders and ours have a "special relationship" I thought your president said "America has no truer friend than Great Britain". So why then do you feel it is ok to hold our citizens without any form of trial whatsoever. It doesn't seem like the actions of a true friend and ally.

If of course you have the details of exactly what these supposed POWs have done to deserve their imprisonment then please tell me and I'll stop arguing the point.

 

[Gonz]

If of course you have the details of exactly what these supposed POWs have done to deserve their imprisonment then please tell me and I'll stop arguing the point.

"Without question, the President can detain enemy combatants, including those who are U.S. citizens, during wartime. See Ex parte Quirin, 317 U.S. 1, 31, 37 (1942); Colepaugh v. Looney, 235 F. 2d 429, 432 (10th Cir. 1956); In re Territo, 156 F. 2d 142, 145 (9th Cir. 1946). The Fourth Circuit recently reaffirmed this proposition. See Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 296 F.3d 278, 281, 283 (4th Cir. 2002). The purposes of detaining enemy combatants during wartime are, among other things, to gather intelligence and to ensure that detainees do not return to assist the enemy. Presidents have detained enemy combatants in every major conflict in the Nation's history, including recent conflicts such as the Gulf, Vietnam, and Korean wars. During World War II, the United States detained hundreds of thousands of prisoners of war in the United States (some of whom were U.S. citizens) without trial or counsel. Then, as now, the purpose of detention was not to punish, but to protect.

"Article II of the Constitution is the primary basis for the President's authority to detain enemy combatants. Article II vests the 'executive Power' in the President and provides that he 'shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.' U.S. Const. art. II, § 1, cl. 1; id., § 2, cl. 1. These provisions invest 'the President alone . . . with the entire charge of hostile operations' during wartime. Hamilton v. Dillin, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 73, 87 (1874); see also Johnson v. Eisentrager, 339 U.S. 763, 788 (1950). The determination that an individual should be detained as an enemy combatant has traditionally been one of the President's most fundamental military judgments.

"While Article II is a sufficient basis for the President's authority to detain enemy combatants, in the current conflict the President also enjoys the support of Congress. In its Joint Resolution of September 18, 2001, Congress authorized 'the President . . . to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.' Pub. L. No. 107-40, § 2(a), 115 Stat. 224 (2001) (emphasis added); see also 10 U.S.C.§ 956. Congress thus specifically authorized the President not only to use deadly force, but also any lesser force needed to capture and detain enemy combatants to prevent them from engaging in continued hostilities against the United States. The President's constitutional power is at its apex when he enjoys such support from Congress, especially in the field of foreign affairs. See Dames & Moore v. Regan, 453 U.S. 654, 674 (1981); Youngstown Sheet and Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579, 635-37 & n. 2 (1952) (Jackson, J., concurring).

Dept of Defense

 

[Gato_Solo]

Now I was under the impression that the details regarding why and when these prisoners were captured had not been released.

Also let's assume that the UK does indeed have a problem with our citizens and we have "let that problem fester for too long". Does that give the US the right to ignore international law and hold our citizens without trial for as long as they see fit? No it doesn't.

I was under the impression that the UK was classed as an ally, that your leaders and ours have a "special relationship" I thought your president said "America has no truer friend than Great Britain". So why then do you feel it is ok to hold our citizens without any form of trial whatsoever. It doesn't seem like the actions of a true friend and ally.

If of course you have the details of exactly what these supposed POWs have done to deserve their imprisonment then please tell me and I'll stop arguing the point.

Most of those prisoners were captured in Afghanistan, where they were fighting US troops. International law does not require that we give thos captured fighting our soldiers to their sovereign countries, and, as long as the fighting continues in Afghanistan, we can hold them prisoner. Once the fighting is finally over, however, you can petition to have your 'citizens' returned. BTW...If they are truly citizens of the UK, why were they fighting against US soldiers in Afghanistan? There are loyalties, and then there are loyalties. If they are against an ally of their own country, doesn't that tell you volumes right there? After all..these folks weren't arrested in the London Underground, were they?