No favortism towards Islam, huh

flavio

Banned
Gato_Solo said:
And why was that a joke? I didn't see anyone else thinking it was funny...
Obviously Muslims are having far more problems in the US right now than any Christians.

I have never gone "to great lengths to ridicule and debase anyone who happens to be a believer" in christianity. My personal opinion is that the teachings of Christ were brilliant. I also think that many "Christians" seem to make very little effort to follow those teachings.
 

flavio

Banned
SouthernN'Proud said:
I just refuse to try and discuss anything with a child. That's why I so seldom see anything you post.
Oh I'd love to hear more about this "child" thing. I'll tell you what's childish...changing my screenname to "flamio" when you quote me, abandoning threads (even one's you started) as soon as you're proven wrong, and now that you afraid to debate me directly all you do is jump in with some silly remark when I'm discussing something with another member like you did here. That's childish.

And I still haven't heard squat from you about the PMs I sent you months ago, which is precisely what I anticipated.
Your PM's were about what I anticipated. Mostly an attempt to focus on things the north had done wrong in an attempt to divert attention from why the south wanted to secede and therefore why that flag was created. Like a child trying to get someone else in trouble when they're caught doing something.

Beyond that, I let my record and reputation answer for me, a luxury you don't have.
Oh I'd be ashamed if I had your record and reputation. I'll be just fine with my own.
 

flavio

Banned
You are only able to come up with a response to one sentence out of that whole post? I guess that's the record and reputation you were talking about.
 
And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah (8:39)

http://news.scotsman.com/education.cfm?id=71792006

AN ISLAMIC campaign group has called for a Catholic primary school to be based on the Muslim faith.

The Campaign for Muslim Schools said 90 per cent of pupils at St Albert's Primary, in the Pollokshields area of Glasgow, are Muslim, yet children are having to take part in Catholic rituals like saying the Lord's Prayer and attending mass.

Osama Saeed, co-ordinator of the alliance of Glasgow's main mosques and Muslim organisations, said he could see no reason why the main faith of the school should not change.

He said: "Clearly the parents of that area find a faith school, even if it is of another denomination, preferable to a secular one. But surely it should be possible for them to have one that is relevant to their own faith.

"To move towards this would be a fantastic example of good faith - in more ways than one - on the part of the Church."

The call came just days after Scotland's most senior Catholic, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, sparked controversy by stating that Scotland's core faith was Christianity and that other faiths should recognise they were "living in Scotland as a Christian country". A spokesman for the Catholic Church in Scotland was not available for comment tonight.

And why not build their own madrassa? Could it be because the goal of Islam is not to co-exist with other religions, it is to conquer and convert?
 

flavio

Banned
The Other One said:
Could it be because the goal of Islam is not to co-exist with other religions, it is to conquer and convert?
Where you thinking Islam is the only religion that fits that description or something?
 

nalani

Well-Known Member
Good Lord (or God, Jah, Allah, Yahweh, or any other name I left out)

This thread is the exact reason I changed my curriculum for the second semester at the last minute over the winter intercession...

The official title of my class is "Philosophy/Cultural Anthropology-Upper Division Ethnic Studies", but because it is an upper division (grades 10-12) and I am the only teacher in the state of Hawai'i public school system offering it, I am allowed to create my own curriculum. What did I choose to focus on?

The Philosophy on World Religions and Cultures.

Why? Because of the kinds of comments made by people in general, like some made in this thread. Not all of them, of course .. some are well-said and well-researched. But others are ... well .. let's just say I'm hopeful my students won't, in a few years, make those kinds of broad, generalized, malicious comments - and mean it.

"A person acts in accordance to his or her belief system. If you do not understand that belief system, you will not understand his or her actions. It's that simple." - Dr. J. Cheng


My personal feeling on the issue of this thread (which was lost way back on page 1) is pretty straight forward.

Do I think the girl should be forced to not wear her crucifix? No. I think she should be allowed to wear her necklace as well as any other child should be allowed to wear jewelry as their parents see fit. Of course, I'm basing this on the rights we're afforded in the US, not in the UK where this story takes place.
Do I think the school was wrong in forcing her to take it off and leave it at home? No and Yes. If the rule is 'no jewelry', then the rule is no jewelry. Period. The Islamic kid's family can look for another school if it's that important to them to do so and if it's that important to the school to hold on to such a rule. However, if they're going to allow one child, regardless of religious background, to wear jewelry, then all should be allowed to wear it with the stipulation and understanding that the school is not accountable or liable for any thefts, if that is indeed their 'main concern'. I seriously don't think this is rocket science.
Do I think it's a Muslim/Islamic favortism issue as the thread title leads you to believe? I completely agree with Leslie;Nope, it's not. But that's just my opinion. I think the school is thinking through their asses, using fallacy after fallacy to attempt to cover up the fact that they are thinking through their asses and justify their 'bending the rules'. Were it another religion, where an article must be worn by a student, they probably would have done the same thing.

*gets off my so
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
nalani said:
However, if they're going to allow one child, regardless of religious background, to wear jewelry, then all should be allowed to wear it

Which is, in the end, only the right thing to do.

nalani said:
Do I think it's a Muslim/Islamic favortism issue as the thread title leads you to believe?

If this were a single issue, then you would be right. When you combine it with the absolute favortism shown this particular religion while simultaneously denuding all things Christian/Judaic from every possible discourse in the education setting (in government setting, as a whole, really) it lends one the sense of preferential treatment.

Public schools, in some locales, have set up Islamic prayer rooms. Ask a Christian who prays before class what happens to her.

In some cities they are demanding bell ringing or that song chant thing they do to be loudspeakered thru the community to call Muslims to prayer. I recall the Catholic Church at the end of my dads street in Phoenix being told that they may no longer ring their bells, because it's religious in nature.

Many schools are teaching about the Islamic faith while specifically denying any mention of the Christian or Jewish faith.

There are other examples scattered thru this forum.

Ban all or allow all.
 

nalani

Well-Known Member
First ... Absolute favortism ... somehow, in this case and most cases, I have a problem with that word, "absolute". It connotates "decidedly", "consistantly", and "globally", and regardless of how many places it happens or doesn't happen, it doesn't happen everywhere. Even you can realize and admit to that.

Secondly, being a public school teacher, I am well aware of the laws of what can and cannot happen in public schools. If it is happening in your area - or any US public school area - then it is *also* a reflection of the leaders in that area. And, here's the kicker, as a taxpayer, you, and any other citizen who feels strongly enough, can stand up and do something about it by practicing your First Amendment rights (and that can be done without name-calling, culture-bashing or broad religious/cultural generalizations).

Lastly, as far as this article is concerned, it is a single issue. But since it is placed against a larger - much larger - issue, I could, if the issue itself meant a hell of a lot to me, argue by turning around your same points. (For the record, the issue itself doesn't bother me .. what bothers me is the near-absolute lack of tolerance and the broad generalizations made over and over).

Public schools, in some locales, have set up Islamic prayer rooms. Ask a Christian who prays before class what happens to her.

"in some locales" is the key word here. Depending on how it's handled, I see it as tolerance toward a particular religion, rather than favortism. (Which, strangely enough, is why Europeans came to the "New World", right? For the freedom to practice their religious beliefs without fear of persecution?). Here's the thing. Muslim must pray at particlar times of the day. It's not a question of whether or not they wish to, it is an order of their belief system that must be obeyed. Like not eating meat during certain times of Lent for Catholics. Now I don't know about other public school districts outside of Hawai'i, but here the schools do not serve meat dishes on those days. I'm not Catholic. I like meat. But I'm not going to cry foul. If it really bugged me, I could petition the courts to make those Catholics bring lunch on those days. If it really bugged me, I could attempt to do something about it. I am afforded that right.

As for the Christian who prays before class - they are also afforded that right. Want to know how to legally pray in public school settings? Here's the link. For any who feel strongly about prayer in school, take a look at that and pass it on, especially to the leaders of your state. But again, intolerance breeds intolerance as ignorance breed ignorance. If the leaders don't bother to educate themselves, why should others in their area?

Look, I'm not as naive as you might think I am. I know there's a lot of crap out there, religiously and culturally. I know that no one religion is perfect in any way shape or form, historically or by practice. And I know that people have very strong cultural and religious beliefs (as I do). But honestly, is it too much to ask that for one moment in time, everyone just takes a breath and attempts to look at it from a different point of view? That the name-calling and belief-bashing stop, especially when your (speaking generally, not directed at you, Gonz) point is in need of justificaton? I'm not pro anything except Hawai'i and family. I'm not anti-Christian, anti-Judaism, anti-Islam or anti-anti. I'm not arguing for or against any of these issues or arguments, but rather, the way in which the arguing is taking place and the fallacious justifications behind the points are made.

Maybe I am naive afterall. :shrug:
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
My Congress members hate me. Surprised? Thought not :D.

I have no qualm with Islam, in & of itself...if we'd back off the other, far more standardized US religions. That's what gets me...Christianity is being shoved into the corner by entities on all sides yet Islam is given a break or being shoved into the main.

If Catholics don't want hamburgers for lent, bring a lunch. If Muslims want to pray 5x a day...fine, just don't expect or demand the aveage day to revolve around your needs. Adjust your life accordingly.
 

freako104

Well-Known Member
And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah (8:39)




And fight on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah together and everywhere, but if they cease, Allah sees that they do.







Now as far as the whole god thing, they worship the god of Abraham which is also the Jewish and Christian god. But the Catholic school isnt Muslim, it shouldnt be forced to teach anything. Most private schools are to their own standard regarless of whether or not it is gov't standards. Public schools are the ones that the Muslims can try to get their little bit in or also in Muslim based schools.
 

flavio

Banned
Well said Nalani!

Gonz said:
I have no qualm with Islam, in & of itself...if we'd back off the other, far more standardized US religions. That's what gets me...Christianity is being shoved into the corner by entities on all sides yet Islam is given a break or being shoved into the main.
I think major idea you're missing is that there are tons of examples of Christians and other religions besides Islam getting all sorts of breaks as well. There are also tons of examples of Muslims not getting treated as well as non-muslims...or just being bashed and mistreated just because they are Muslim (must be hundreds of examples of that right in this forum).

You are just completely focused on any breaks that Muslims get when there's a pretty good chance that they pale in comparison to the breaks Christians get. What's the ratio of Christians to Muslims in Congress?

If Catholics don't want hamburgers for lent, bring a lunch. If Muslims want to pray 5x a day...fine, just don't expect or demand the aveage day to revolve around your needs. Adjust your life accordingly.
Muslims want to pray when its required by their religion, many Christians want to change schools curriculum in order to stop teaching science and teach creation/design instead. Yet it seems you only take issue with the muslim case.
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
Yeah until them billions of Muslims convert to
Christianity we'll just have to keep bombing the Hell outta of them!
 
flavio said:
Where you thinking Islam is the only religion that fits that description or something?


To not co-exist with other religions, but to intend to conquer and convert them to theirs? The world has seen religious wars from the start. However, when interpreted literally Islamic scripture requires total genocide of all none muslims.
 
freako104 said:
And fight on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah together and everywhere, but if they cease, Allah sees that they do.




The first line of defense of the deniers and apologists of jihad

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freako104

Well-Known Member
The Other One said:
To not co-exist with other religions, but to intend to conquer and convert them to theirs? The world has seen religious wars from the start. However, when interpreted literally Islamic scripture requires total genocide of all none muslims.



The same can be said about the Bible or for that matter almost any religious writing. And I have seen nothing in my copy of the Qu'aran that calls for the killing of "infidels" or non Muslims. It does say to defend self from those that are attacking though that would be different.
 

flavio

Banned
The Other One said:
To not co-exist with other religions, but to intend to conquer and convert them to theirs? The world has seen religious wars from the start. However, when interpreted literally Islamic scripture requires total genocide of all none muslims.
You haven't noticed Winky promoting genocide every other day in order to not co-exist with another religion?

Here's an example of Christians wanting "to conquer and convert the world, by the sword if necessary".

Ever hear of the Israelites who were divinely commanded to not only utterly destroy the Cannanites, who by their idolatry and wickedness had forfeited their rights to the land of Canaan, but also to take their land? Canaanites were usually completely massacred when a city was taken.

What about “Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand. Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him, and cut off his head with it. When the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled.”

Acts 13:22 “I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My heart, who will do all My will.”

The Christian Franks conquered/converted/massacred the Goths.

American Indians were conquered/converted/massacred. What religion were the people who did that?

An attempt to conquer and convert the Chinese led to the Boxer Rebellion.

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." - Ann Coulter


Taking Jerusalem: Climax of the First Crusade By J. Arthur McFall. "The Crusaders spent at least that night and the next day killing Muslims, including all of those in the al-Aqsa Mosque, where Tancred's banner should have protected them. Not even women and children were spared. The city's Jews sought refuge in their synagogue, only to be burned alive within it by the Crusaders. .... The Europeans also destroyed the monuments to Orthodox Christian saints and the tomb of Abraham."
 
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